ENGINE NOISE

[Benjamin7]

What kind of help to your fuel guage does that overdrive offer? Lower bottom gears would be nice since I want to put on 35's but don't wanna mess with re-building the axles...

 

[Benjamin7]

Ok guys, just wanted to say thanks again for all of your help. Just give you an update on the latest in my findings and then I guess this thread is pretty much kaput.
I have located a 304 in a '70 1200 picup truck that was rebuilt about 20k ago. The guy wants 750 for the whole kit and kaboodle. Doesn't sound like the truck is that great, but I May be able to put my 345 back in it after I've rebuilt it??? Who knows. Just an option. There is also a 345 that is pretty souped up, don't know the asking price on this. It's up in washington. Should be a good option if I can afford it. The last May be a real steal. It's a 392 and appears to be in good condition. He only wants 300 for it! So that's what I'm leaning to. My final question for you IH junkies, will the 392 swap over smoothly and mate the same as my 345!?also, am I gonna be able to fit it in my engine bay?! Anything I need to change with my steering? Motor mounts, etc???
Thanks again! This is kinda exciting!

 

[Robert Kenney]

It will swap right in. Your manifold and exhaust will fit on exactly.

Make sure all mounting holes that your rig uses for the mounts are drilled. I've only heard stories where a truck engine was swapped in and the holes were not drilled. Never seen it my self. Just finished a 392 swaped in place of a 304 in a traveller. No issues what so ever. We did install a new 4 barrel manifold though because the 304 has a slightly different port layout.

 

[Scoutboy74]

To expound on Robert's points, the 392 shares the same external dimensions as the 345, so the swap is a piece of cake. This topic has been covered in great depth on several of the forums, but the quick 411 is as follows:
whenever swapping any IH sv from a vehicle other than a Scout II into a Scout II, some specific sii engine peripherals must be retained or acquired. The unique sii double sump oil pan, oil pump/pickup assy, oil dipstick tube, engine mounts and possibly portions of the throttle linkage assy. In your case, you'll for sure want to retain that delco dizz. Also, if the donor engine was originally mated to a manual trans, the flywheel must be replaced with a flexplate if it is going to be mated to an auto trans such as in your case. Since IH externally balanced their engines on an individual basis, swapping a ring gear from one to another May lead to engine vibration. You will also need to retain the spacer shim that goes between the starter and the trans on auto-equipped rigs. On the 392, you should find out if it is improved cooling or non-ic. The ic version is generally preferred, but that's not to suggest it should be the only deciding factor. Also, find out what carb and intake combos these various candidates have.

**addendum** you May also need to swap over the crank hub spacer and hub bolts depending on what the donor motor came out of and had for a trans. A lot of people forget about those...I almost did.

 

[Benjamin7]

I'm either insanely lucky or just got hosed with a bad motor... Either way it will be worth it just for the parts... I just bagged up a 392 with a manual tranny and a d20 for $175. It's from a mod shop that just wants to get rid of it. Supposedly it ran fine, but even if it doesn't just the parts on it will be worth it. Very stoked to get it. Hopefully I'll pick it up Thursday night or Saturday. I'll post pics when I get them.

 

[Scoutboy74]

Sheeyat!!!! I think you dun gud man! That wuz kwik! I revert tuh redkekeez whenever I git werkd up! Sailor jerry often haz sumthin' tuh do with it. Even if the engine is a seezed up boat anchor, the other stuff wuz werth the price of admission. Prolly safe to assume this thing has been sitting non-rotational for over a year? If so, you'll want to adhere to mayben's dead dawg revival procedure located in this sub forum when the time comes. Nice score ben!

 

[Benjamin7]

Daggum man. U speek beter rednik then evin me... Anyhoot, here's a couple pics of the motor that I just bought. It was out of a show Scout. The mechanic switched this motor for a chitvy 454... It wound up sitting in the yard since March of last year... About three months ago (at least he was honest... I hope?) he said the cover blew off and they didn't put it back on... Unfortunately the carb is uncovered. Ie, no air cleaner, soooo... Hopefully it was out of the rain enough that the manifold didn't fill up with water and rust. We'll see when I break it down. The motor looks like a show motor, but then again I consider anything not covered in oil and grime a show motor! He's gonna send me better pics tomorrow. So ya, I'm feelin' pretty good about it all. I'll get on Maybens post now and see what he thinks I should do. Thanks for the insight. Hopefully all of this will alow me enough extra cash that I can do my spring over and get some 35's on so I can actually trail it this summer! We'll see eh??

 

[Scoutboy74]

Pics? Where they be? Yawl kaint teez us lyk that! Rust in the intake isn't the primary concern. Rust in the cylinder bores that welds the pistons in place is. Lotsa praktiss deevelupin this here my-t-fyne kumand uh the inglish langwij I got, startin' with my rurul upbringin' in south dugluss kowntee folload by my kontinyoowin post secundaree edjumukashun at the binder u.

Now I see pics. They didn't show up at first. Looks real purdy on the outside. I hope the inside's just as purdy.

 

[Michael Mayben]

Whatta deal ya got there! And a whole lot cheeeper and ez'er than any motor swap!!

But...since I'm always the pessimist arount here, please take time to verify that motor is free to turn and does not have any issues since it's internals have been exposed to the atmosphere! Moisture condensation will do as much or more damage to this stuff as sticking a garden hose down the gullet or settin' in tha rain.

With the motor onna stand or onna pallet, you can do the entire pre-lube process before you install it! If ya fab up a "box" to mount it on of say 2x12 lumber, ya can actually start and run the motor off a fuel can and a water hose. This pic issa 345 inna box, I later rigged up some more secure "mounts so I could use it for a redneck run stand. It's also had a built Ford fe motor running on it with headers mounted. That harbor freight dolly is rated for 1,000lbs., I've got several of those in both sizes I use for storing transmissions, engines, etc., buy when in the sale paper and they are almost free!

 

[Benjamin7]

Thanks for the idea mayben. I think since I'm going to be going through the 392 for a bit, and then I'll have the 345 to go through as well, I'm just gonna invest in a cheap engine stand. I have tractors, so I don't need a cherry picker, so this all should go pretty well.
I've been searching for your "dead dawg" revival tips that trever was talking about but for the life of me I can't find it. I love this forum, but it's so packed with info sometimes it's hard to get what you want!
Trever, thanks for all of your imput. Greatly appreciated!

Ha, just found it mayben... I had to sort through your 118 threads and got back to (I think) your 3rd thread ever, so now I'm on it!
Never mind, I thought I found it, but no such luck... Where is it???? If mayben says it, I gotta have it!
Ok, I found a cheap build thread regarding the sonjamotor? Is this what we're talking about?

 

[Scoutboy74]

Ben, there is a pdf file attached to post #3 of the very top sticky in this section, sumthin lyke I-4 and sv lifter rattlesnakes 'er sumthin' along those lines. You kin downlode and print the sumbitch out and read it to yer kids at bedtyme!

 

[Michael Mayben]

Yep, scoutboy sez...go here:

http://www.forums.IHPartsAmerica.co...I-4-sv-engine-non-oiling-rocker-assembly.html

And print the attachments in posts #2 and #3.

I'm working on part II of that package, that will deal with the workaround for shittee fuel systems that sit around as long as these engines do!

Part iii will deal with an IH electrical system that has also been nawwed by rats/weasels/kalifornikate politicians over time, the main ingredient for that is addressed here:

http://www.forums.IHPartsAmerica.com/electrical-tech/1843-electrical-system-box.html

The original sonjamotor fookeroo was the impetus for my odyssey about six years ago into why these motors take a shit lubrication-wise after both long-term non-rotation and/or after being brought to life and then running for several hundred miles before takin' a dump. Up to that point, I just figgrd that was a one-off deal...but since then, I deal with this non-oiler schnizz onna daily basis with folks all over the world! We got alotta ihon lurkers throughout europe! If ya search the entire "engine tech" sub-forum, you will see this is by far the most commonly addressed issue!

 

[Benjamin7]

As allways, thanks again. Here's a few more pics of the new engine.

Beware mayben... Po believed in rtv... Yuck.

After reading some of your "old iron comes to life".... Ugh... Now I know what happened to my 345. Knowledge is power. And in this case this power could have saved me many days of work and many many dollars. Ugh.

 

[Michael Mayben]

That butched "breather" is the first time I've seen that po virus deal!!! Sumbody went to alotta trouble for no reason to eliminate the pcv system looks like! And that "breather cap" will drip condensed oil vapors like a bitch all over the back of the motor and down the exhaust pipes!

Get us more shots, both long and detailed, and we'll pick this thing apart so ya will know what to give sum luv to.

 

[Benjamin7]

Ya mayben. I'm picking it up on Saturday and I'll give as much detail... Probably more detail than you'll want! I'm liking being able to put stuff on youtube. What a great tool to help aspiring wrenches like me.

 

[Benjamin7]

Couldn't wait. The guy was coming into oregon so I went up and met him in eugene and picked it up this morning. I just bought an engine stand and I'll get it mounted tonight and post some pics. Here's some more detailed pics of it sitting in my truck.

 

[Michael Mayben]

Wish I'd knowd you wuz gonna be in eujoisee, I'da hooked up with ya, I'm at milepost 20 on hiway 126 up tha mckenzie valley.

Offhand, I'm gonna say that motor is a composite.

Scout II motor mounts, early 2v manifold with no egr (good thang!), oem-type Holley 2300 carb, no a.I.r. (smog) pump mount with the ps pump mount (another good thang).

The distributor is a prestolite that has a pertronix conversion trigger installed, thus the red(+) and black(-) wires going to the coil.

Re-plumb the pcv system before ya stick it in the rig.

You are right, that rather liberal application of rtv would set off the rtv alarm on on the highway, so you'd havta keep that motor at least 100 yards away from the driveway!

 

[Benjamin7]

Based on what I've read about the carbs, is there not supposed to be about a 1/4" gasket under it, to act as a heat sink with a duckbill to protect the float bowl from heat? Or is it not needed due to the manifold? The manifold seems tall to me... Is that a trait of the earlier svs?
And can that pertronix go over to my delco dizzy? I'm gonna do your lube tricks and see what I can get for oil flow to the rockers... Hopefully this will be plug and play, but I'm worried about what having that open carb did to the cilinders (as Jesse pointed out to me in a pm)...

 

[Michael Mayben]

Any manifold/carb setup benefits from having the "heat dam" insulator gasket, but that is certainly not anything that keeps the motor from running! You can add that anytime, felpro 60677, we got 'em in stock! That is a workaround for reducing the phenomena known as "percolation".

All the IH sv manifolds are what we refer to generically as "medium/high rise". That is a performance-enhancing feature for a truck engine and is something that all the aftermarket manifold manufacturers offer in their performance lines ups. Your manifold is also referred to as a "dual plane", again, that is a performance feature. One more reason why none of the aftermarket folks ever made manifolds for these motors, they didn't need it!!!! The rpt aluminum manifold is nearly half the weight though compared to the cast iron unit, and significantly increases heat transfer away from the intake system.

That manifold is not the "earliest" version however. Yours has the cut-away section under the throttle linkage area that allows use of several aftermarket carbs without the need for a spacer to allow throttle clearance.

Also, your water neck is the earlier style used on some pickalls and the first year Scout 810/Scout II. If all the stuff is original to that motor, it would be "correct" (if the pcv is connected) for a m/y 72 Scout II app based upon the motor mounts. Those used that non-egr intake and the Holley 2300. That manifold uses what I refer to as the "vacuum tree" setup at the rear of the plenum. The sheetmetal surround on the passenger side exhaust manifold is for the heated air intake tube to the air cleaner snorkel, I'd remove that now while it's easily accessible.

The pertronix unit is unique to that prestolite distributor only, they are not universal. Each distributor type requires it's own dedicated p-tron if ya chose to use one.

All in all, what ya got there is a total non-emissions setup, very simple to deal with as it has no add-on gobbledeegook!!! My kinda motor!

 

[Scoutboy74]

Also ben, in addition to mayben's id's, that's either a non-ic 392 - water tubes entering cylinder heads instead of the block - or sumbudy is storyin' on ya and it ain't a 392 at all. Have you rooted around near where the fuel pump is located? The engine id pad is there with the block cid stamped in.

 

[Michael Mayben]

also ben, in addition to mayben's id's, that's either a non-ic 392 - water tubes entering cylinder heads instead of the block - or sumbudy is storyin' on ya and it ain't a 392 at all. Have you rooted around near where the fuel pump is located? The engine id pad is there with the block cid stamped in.

Yep, if it's a 392 based upon engine number I.d., that motor coulda been oem in a medium duty truck, those 392 apps sometimes were equipped with a 2v manifold,...or the Scout II app accessories have been swapped over like the oil pan. Only sii uses a double sump oil pan for the 4x4 installation.

The water tube location connected to the heads indicates a non-ic motor. See this thread for more info on "improved cooling" poop:

http://www.forums.IHPartsAmerica.com/gas-engine-tech/3289-differences-392-ic-vs-non-ic.html

 

[Scoutboy74]

Since it's been in a Scout before, if she's sound, this will be a swap even sailor jerry could wrangle. And that list 2977 2300 mixer when refurbished will be a nice upgrade over yer crap ball 2210. So mayben, between the two dizzy's ben has, the other being a delcotron, which of the two is a better option assuming both are functional with end play in tolerance?

 

[Benjamin7]

Hey guys, I've got it torn down a little ways, but ran out of steam last night. Gotta go to work today and then I'll be back at it. I've read the ic threads before so I know what to look for there... It's funny that you guys mentioned it because the engine mounts said it was a 304, but those could have been swapped in too. I never checked the tags on the head. Anyhoot, I gotta get to work and I'll post up later what's up. Lots of rust in the manifold by the way

 

[Michael Mayben]

since it's been in a Scout before, if she's sound, this will be a swap even sailor jerry could wrangle. And that list 2977 2300 mixer when refurbished will be a nice upgrade over yer crap ball 2210. So mayben, between the two dizzy's ben has, the other being a delcotron, which of the two is a better option assuming both are functional with end play in tolerance?

I'd go with the presto since it's pertronicized (assuming it ain't burned out!!). Save the delco (cleaned up of course) for later use with a built motor using an ex-crane xri/pertronix p-iii like you have.

 

[Benjamin7]

Once again, I prove my ignorance. I was looking at what I thot was the mount, but it was part of the head. Ya. It's a 304. What does this mean for me?