ENGINE NOISE

[Scoutboy74]

Ben, there is a pdf file attached to post #3 of the very top sticky in this section, sumthin lyke I-4 and sv lifter rattlesnakes 'er sumthin' along those lines. You kin downlode and print the sumbitch out and read it to yer kids at bedtyme!

 

[Michael Mayben]

Yep, scoutboy sez...go here:

http://www.forums.IHPartsAmerica.co...I-4-sv-engine-non-oiling-rocker-assembly.html

And print the attachments in posts #2 and #3.

I'm working on part II of that package, that will deal with the workaround for shittee fuel systems that sit around as long as these engines do!

Part iii will deal with an IH electrical system that has also been nawwed by rats/weasels/kalifornikate politicians over time, the main ingredient for that is addressed here:

http://www.forums.IHPartsAmerica.com/electrical-tech/1843-electrical-system-box.html

The original sonjamotor fookeroo was the impetus for my odyssey about six years ago into why these motors take a shit lubrication-wise after both long-term non-rotation and/or after being brought to life and then running for several hundred miles before takin' a dump. Up to that point, I just figgrd that was a one-off deal...but since then, I deal with this non-oiler schnizz onna daily basis with folks all over the world! We got alotta ihon lurkers throughout europe! If ya search the entire "engine tech" sub-forum, you will see this is by far the most commonly addressed issue!

 

[Benjamin7]

As allways, thanks again. Here's a few more pics of the new engine.

Beware mayben... Po believed in rtv... Yuck.

After reading some of your "old iron comes to life".... Ugh... Now I know what happened to my 345. Knowledge is power. And in this case this power could have saved me many days of work and many many dollars. Ugh.

 

[Michael Mayben]

That butched "breather" is the first time I've seen that po virus deal!!! Sumbody went to alotta trouble for no reason to eliminate the pcv system looks like! And that "breather cap" will drip condensed oil vapors like a bitch all over the back of the motor and down the exhaust pipes!

Get us more shots, both long and detailed, and we'll pick this thing apart so ya will know what to give sum luv to.

 

[Benjamin7]

Ya mayben. I'm picking it up on Saturday and I'll give as much detail... Probably more detail than you'll want! I'm liking being able to put stuff on youtube. What a great tool to help aspiring wrenches like me.

 

[Benjamin7]

Couldn't wait. The guy was coming into oregon so I went up and met him in eugene and picked it up this morning. I just bought an engine stand and I'll get it mounted tonight and post some pics. Here's some more detailed pics of it sitting in my truck.

 

[Michael Mayben]

Wish I'd knowd you wuz gonna be in eujoisee, I'da hooked up with ya, I'm at milepost 20 on hiway 126 up tha mckenzie valley.

Offhand, I'm gonna say that motor is a composite.

Scout II motor mounts, early 2v manifold with no egr (good thang!), oem-type Holley 2300 carb, no a.I.r. (smog) pump mount with the ps pump mount (another good thang).

The distributor is a prestolite that has a pertronix conversion trigger installed, thus the red(+) and black(-) wires going to the coil.

Re-plumb the pcv system before ya stick it in the rig.

You are right, that rather liberal application of rtv would set off the rtv alarm on on the highway, so you'd havta keep that motor at least 100 yards away from the driveway!

 

[Benjamin7]

Based on what I've read about the carbs, is there not supposed to be about a 1/4" gasket under it, to act as a heat sink with a duckbill to protect the float bowl from heat? Or is it not needed due to the manifold? The manifold seems tall to me... Is that a trait of the earlier svs?
And can that pertronix go over to my delco dizzy? I'm gonna do your lube tricks and see what I can get for oil flow to the rockers... Hopefully this will be plug and play, but I'm worried about what having that open carb did to the cilinders (as Jesse pointed out to me in a pm)...

 

[Michael Mayben]

Any manifold/carb setup benefits from having the "heat dam" insulator gasket, but that is certainly not anything that keeps the motor from running! You can add that anytime, felpro 60677, we got 'em in stock! That is a workaround for reducing the phenomena known as "percolation".

All the IH sv manifolds are what we refer to generically as "medium/high rise". That is a performance-enhancing feature for a truck engine and is something that all the aftermarket manifold manufacturers offer in their performance lines ups. Your manifold is also referred to as a "dual plane", again, that is a performance feature. One more reason why none of the aftermarket folks ever made manifolds for these motors, they didn't need it!!!! The rpt aluminum manifold is nearly half the weight though compared to the cast iron unit, and significantly increases heat transfer away from the intake system.

That manifold is not the "earliest" version however. Yours has the cut-away section under the throttle linkage area that allows use of several aftermarket carbs without the need for a spacer to allow throttle clearance.

Also, your water neck is the earlier style used on some pickalls and the first year Scout 810/Scout II. If all the stuff is original to that motor, it would be "correct" (if the pcv is connected) for a m/y 72 Scout II app based upon the motor mounts. Those used that non-egr intake and the Holley 2300. That manifold uses what I refer to as the "vacuum tree" setup at the rear of the plenum. The sheetmetal surround on the passenger side exhaust manifold is for the heated air intake tube to the air cleaner snorkel, I'd remove that now while it's easily accessible.

The pertronix unit is unique to that prestolite distributor only, they are not universal. Each distributor type requires it's own dedicated p-tron if ya chose to use one.

All in all, what ya got there is a total non-emissions setup, very simple to deal with as it has no add-on gobbledeegook!!! My kinda motor!

 

[Scoutboy74]

Also ben, in addition to mayben's id's, that's either a non-ic 392 - water tubes entering cylinder heads instead of the block - or sumbudy is storyin' on ya and it ain't a 392 at all. Have you rooted around near where the fuel pump is located? The engine id pad is there with the block cid stamped in.

 

[Michael Mayben]

also ben, in addition to mayben's id's, that's either a non-ic 392 - water tubes entering cylinder heads instead of the block - or sumbudy is storyin' on ya and it ain't a 392 at all. Have you rooted around near where the fuel pump is located? The engine id pad is there with the block cid stamped in.

Yep, if it's a 392 based upon engine number I.d., that motor coulda been oem in a medium duty truck, those 392 apps sometimes were equipped with a 2v manifold,...or the Scout II app accessories have been swapped over like the oil pan. Only sii uses a double sump oil pan for the 4x4 installation.

The water tube location connected to the heads indicates a non-ic motor. See this thread for more info on "improved cooling" poop:

http://www.forums.IHPartsAmerica.com/gas-engine-tech/3289-differences-392-ic-vs-non-ic.html

 

[Scoutboy74]

Since it's been in a Scout before, if she's sound, this will be a swap even sailor jerry could wrangle. And that list 2977 2300 mixer when refurbished will be a nice upgrade over yer crap ball 2210. So mayben, between the two dizzy's ben has, the other being a delcotron, which of the two is a better option assuming both are functional with end play in tolerance?

 

[Benjamin7]

Hey guys, I've got it torn down a little ways, but ran out of steam last night. Gotta go to work today and then I'll be back at it. I've read the ic threads before so I know what to look for there... It's funny that you guys mentioned it because the engine mounts said it was a 304, but those could have been swapped in too. I never checked the tags on the head. Anyhoot, I gotta get to work and I'll post up later what's up. Lots of rust in the manifold by the way

 

[Michael Mayben]

since it's been in a Scout before, if she's sound, this will be a swap even sailor jerry could wrangle. And that list 2977 2300 mixer when refurbished will be a nice upgrade over yer crap ball 2210. So mayben, between the two dizzy's ben has, the other being a delcotron, which of the two is a better option assuming both are functional with end play in tolerance?

I'd go with the presto since it's pertronicized (assuming it ain't burned out!!). Save the delco (cleaned up of course) for later use with a built motor using an ex-crane xri/pertronix p-iii like you have.

 

[Benjamin7]

Once again, I prove my ignorance. I was looking at what I thot was the mount, but it was part of the head. Ya. It's a 304. What does this mean for me?

 

[Scoutboy74]

As long as that rust hasn't migrated down into the cylinder bores, no biggie. Ya got a donor 2v manny on the clank motor if this'n here is beyond redemption.

 

[Scoutboy74]

once again, I prove my ignorance. I was looking at what I thot was the mount, but it was part of the head. Ya. It's a 304. What does this mean for me?

Are you looking at the machined surface on the passenger side close to where the fuel pump is located? And it says something like a304? Pic please. If this is a 304, then you got storied by sumbudy, maybe not intentionally. It happens all the time. Person a mistakenly tells person b that it's 345 or a 392. When in fact it's something else. Bad info gets passed along to the next guy. If this is a 304, then my intake swap suggestion from just a couple minutes ago doesn't apply. In the end it means you've got a 304, not something else. Dissapointing, yes, but not the end of the world so long as it's a good 304.

 

[Benjamin7]

Ya, just above the pass side motor mount. It was black (like the motor mount, so I thot it was the motor mount, but after re-examination it's deffinitely stamped on the head, above the motor mount by 1" and next to the exhaust. 304a I'll pic it later when I'm not working.

 

[Benjamin7]

I've always been a "bigger is better" kinda guy... But I don't really know the dif between the 304, 345, and 392 regarding power, fuel economy, ease of service, etc, etc...

 

[Scoutboy74]

Bummer dude. You just learned another lesson. That surface is actually part of the block, not the head. The 304 is a very good motor. Service is about the same for each as they belong to the same family. It revs a little higher a little faster than it's big brothers. In proper state of tune you can expect slightly better fuel economy also. Yes there is a drop off in power, mainly torque as none of these engines generate eye-popping horsepower without significant modification. But it will still scoot your Scout along with no trouble.