ENGINE NOISE

[Dealbreaker74]

There is no real need to go to a driver's side t/c drop if you don't want to. There are plenty of 700r4/np231 swaps to look at, and aside from the crossmember and driveline mods, its a snap. Keeping the stock d-44 makes the most sense. Np-208s and 231s w/passenger drops are very plentiful. Of course, I'd stick w/the ihc iron in front....

 

[Scoutboy74]

Well ben, I was laying in the weeds keeping a weather eye on things while the gurus guru-ed. By coincidence I was attending the binder university most of the weekend in continuance of my capstone project under the guidance of professor mayben. We had a stimulating sidebar about your sitcheeyashun, whilst smoking corn cob pipes and stroking our beards in a most intuhlekshooel fashion.
Gosh this timing sucks. If only this was happening 2 years ago. I would have gladly given you my good running, high miles 345 with trashed cam bearings. I didn't have the means to dry store what was suddenly a boat anchor to me for x amount of time after it was pulled. I feel guilty now. You've got most of the parts that would have restored it's health. I fear that block has been reincarnated into a frikkin pree-us now.
I'll be keeping my eyes and ears peeled for a solution.

 

[Benjamin7]

Hey trever, ya, don't sweat it! I got my feelers all over the country right now, hopefully we'll come up with something. Something I've been thinking about is how much I love diesels. I know the diesel they run in the scouts are oil burners but that's never bothered me too much. I haven't found anything that has shown a diesel mounted to a tq flite tho... Do you know if they ever mated it that way, or was it all to manual trannys? I've also read that those deisels can get up to 30-35 mpgs! Would love to see that on my dd!

 

[Benjamin7]

Hey dealbreaker, I'm getting savvy with all of the IH stuff, but know next to nothing regarding what goes behind a chitvy engine. Are the np 231's a good tc?? How does it compare to the d20 I'm running now? I wouldn't mind keeping the d20 but the adapter is $600 bucks after shipping! Then again, I'm not turning this truck into a wheeler, I just wanna be able to take it on light trails. I know the granny low on my gmc is forever low... I can put that truck in granny low and it will climb a tree while towing my 20k gooseneck... Just not over 5 mph

 

[Michael Mayben]

Runner sv engines are a dime-a-dozen in the northwest dude! Take the easy way out, find one that is guaranteed runner that has oil pressure and no valve train noise, drop it in, and move on!

Then when ya have time/beans/means, build the motor ya have now as a learning experience.

Connecting with IHSTO will produce an engine in fairly short order, and also post in the classifieds here:

http://www.forums.IHPartsAmerica.com/I-h-s-t-o/

You are residing in what was one of the largest markets/concentrations of IH/Scout II vehicles sold back in the day in the entire u.s. Market, shit is everywhere up here!

The absolute perfect engine swap into a Scout II however...is a "b" block chrysler (383/413/440) married to a chrysler-pattern 727 that has been converted to a Scout II output shaft (to retain the d20), this is nearly a bolt-in operation, results in a loss of about 150lbs., and the motor can easily produce 450hp with a minimal expenditure for off-the-shelf parts as common at 7-11 as sbc shit.

A chrysler 318/340/360 is just as effective and bolts to the same tranny.

 

[Benjamin7]

No doubt about all the engines up here. Now that I'm on the hunt I have all sorts of possibilities! Pretty damn cool.

 

[Dealbreaker74]

The np-231 is the same basic box that came behind 1 ton jeeps, so its up to the task. Plus its a little lower in 4-lo than the Dana 20s and 300s (2.70 vs 2.04). And lighter. The drawbacks are its probably not as durable as the d-20/300 (chain drive vs gear drive) when you're really beating on it. And since its aluminum, it needs a good skid plate.
I went with this because of your sitch concerning the adapter. But when you figure the crossmember/driveline mods, its about a wash. In fact, you'll probably end up modding your driveshafts anyway. The 700r4 comes out longer than the 727.
So far I am happy. The GM tranny has a low 3.06 first to get you rolling and the od is how it should have come from the factory. First gear and lo range gives a considerably lower crawl ratio than the 727/d-20 combo.
The NP208 is similar and plentiful, but not as strong and has no neutral position between 4hi and 4lo.
You're looking at $600 for the ihc engine plate, and roughly another $300 each for driveline mods. A junker 231 should be no more than $250. You can refresh it with new bearings, seals and a chain for about $125. I also ditched the bogus slip yoke tailshaft on the 231 and replaced it with a shorty kit like the Jeep guys use. That was another couple hundred. So we're looking at something close to $2k before you even have a running engine. But, once you get all of this sorted out, you'll have a modern drive train (which can be repaired anywhere if needed) being pushed around by the heart and soul of American iron. These rigs were ahead of their time style wise, and they really stand out in a crowd. The proof is all the knuckleheads that ask me "what kind of Bronco is that???"
a little off the topic, but my $.02.

 

[Dealbreaker74]

I also agree w/mayben on the mopar 440 thing. I've seen this swap in person twice, and it is a kick-ass option. The only thing missing is the overdrive. But it would take more than that to knock the smile off your grille when you've got 400hp/tq at the wheels!

 

[Benjamin7]

I wouldn't mind your $.10 worth! I'm gonna try to find an IH motor first, since I have the cash into the tq.flt. Already... From what I've found it looks like I May be able to just swap it for around $500! Wow. Had I realized this then I May have been looking for a new motor from the beginning. If I can't find a motor that is looking decent then I May go with the 350/700r4 swap. I love the idea of an overdrive.

 

[Dealbreaker74]

Its still an option down the road. This truck started with the 727/d-20 combo. Just add the motor plate from ihon, and you're in business. Ihc motivation and od too.

 

[Benjamin7]

What kind of help to your fuel guage does that overdrive offer? Lower bottom gears would be nice since I want to put on 35's but don't wanna mess with re-building the axles...

 

[Benjamin7]

Ok guys, just wanted to say thanks again for all of your help. Just give you an update on the latest in my findings and then I guess this thread is pretty much kaput.
I have located a 304 in a '70 1200 picup truck that was rebuilt about 20k ago. The guy wants 750 for the whole kit and kaboodle. Doesn't sound like the truck is that great, but I May be able to put my 345 back in it after I've rebuilt it??? Who knows. Just an option. There is also a 345 that is pretty souped up, don't know the asking price on this. It's up in washington. Should be a good option if I can afford it. The last May be a real steal. It's a 392 and appears to be in good condition. He only wants 300 for it! So that's what I'm leaning to. My final question for you IH junkies, will the 392 swap over smoothly and mate the same as my 345!?also, am I gonna be able to fit it in my engine bay?! Anything I need to change with my steering? Motor mounts, etc???
Thanks again! This is kinda exciting!

 

[Robert Kenney]

It will swap right in. Your manifold and exhaust will fit on exactly.

Make sure all mounting holes that your rig uses for the mounts are drilled. I've only heard stories where a truck engine was swapped in and the holes were not drilled. Never seen it my self. Just finished a 392 swaped in place of a 304 in a traveller. No issues what so ever. We did install a new 4 barrel manifold though because the 304 has a slightly different port layout.

 

[Scoutboy74]

To expound on Robert's points, the 392 shares the same external dimensions as the 345, so the swap is a piece of cake. This topic has been covered in great depth on several of the forums, but the quick 411 is as follows:
whenever swapping any IH sv from a vehicle other than a Scout II into a Scout II, some specific sii engine peripherals must be retained or acquired. The unique sii double sump oil pan, oil pump/pickup assy, oil dipstick tube, engine mounts and possibly portions of the throttle linkage assy. In your case, you'll for sure want to retain that delco dizz. Also, if the donor engine was originally mated to a manual trans, the flywheel must be replaced with a flexplate if it is going to be mated to an auto trans such as in your case. Since IH externally balanced their engines on an individual basis, swapping a ring gear from one to another May lead to engine vibration. You will also need to retain the spacer shim that goes between the starter and the trans on auto-equipped rigs. On the 392, you should find out if it is improved cooling or non-ic. The ic version is generally preferred, but that's not to suggest it should be the only deciding factor. Also, find out what carb and intake combos these various candidates have.

**addendum** you May also need to swap over the crank hub spacer and hub bolts depending on what the donor motor came out of and had for a trans. A lot of people forget about those...I almost did.

 

[Benjamin7]

I'm either insanely lucky or just got hosed with a bad motor... Either way it will be worth it just for the parts... I just bagged up a 392 with a manual tranny and a d20 for $175. It's from a mod shop that just wants to get rid of it. Supposedly it ran fine, but even if it doesn't just the parts on it will be worth it. Very stoked to get it. Hopefully I'll pick it up Thursday night or Saturday. I'll post pics when I get them.

 

[Scoutboy74]

Sheeyat!!!! I think you dun gud man! That wuz kwik! I revert tuh redkekeez whenever I git werkd up! Sailor jerry often haz sumthin' tuh do with it. Even if the engine is a seezed up boat anchor, the other stuff wuz werth the price of admission. Prolly safe to assume this thing has been sitting non-rotational for over a year? If so, you'll want to adhere to mayben's dead dawg revival procedure located in this sub forum when the time comes. Nice score ben!

 

[Benjamin7]

Daggum man. U speek beter rednik then evin me... Anyhoot, here's a couple pics of the motor that I just bought. It was out of a show Scout. The mechanic switched this motor for a chitvy 454... It wound up sitting in the yard since March of last year... About three months ago (at least he was honest... I hope?) he said the cover blew off and they didn't put it back on... Unfortunately the carb is uncovered. Ie, no air cleaner, soooo... Hopefully it was out of the rain enough that the manifold didn't fill up with water and rust. We'll see when I break it down. The motor looks like a show motor, but then again I consider anything not covered in oil and grime a show motor! He's gonna send me better pics tomorrow. So ya, I'm feelin' pretty good about it all. I'll get on Maybens post now and see what he thinks I should do. Thanks for the insight. Hopefully all of this will alow me enough extra cash that I can do my spring over and get some 35's on so I can actually trail it this summer! We'll see eh??

 

[Scoutboy74]

Pics? Where they be? Yawl kaint teez us lyk that! Rust in the intake isn't the primary concern. Rust in the cylinder bores that welds the pistons in place is. Lotsa praktiss deevelupin this here my-t-fyne kumand uh the inglish langwij I got, startin' with my rurul upbringin' in south dugluss kowntee folload by my kontinyoowin post secundaree edjumukashun at the binder u.

Now I see pics. They didn't show up at first. Looks real purdy on the outside. I hope the inside's just as purdy.

 

[Michael Mayben]

Whatta deal ya got there! And a whole lot cheeeper and ez'er than any motor swap!!

But...since I'm always the pessimist arount here, please take time to verify that motor is free to turn and does not have any issues since it's internals have been exposed to the atmosphere! Moisture condensation will do as much or more damage to this stuff as sticking a garden hose down the gullet or settin' in tha rain.

With the motor onna stand or onna pallet, you can do the entire pre-lube process before you install it! If ya fab up a "box" to mount it on of say 2x12 lumber, ya can actually start and run the motor off a fuel can and a water hose. This pic issa 345 inna box, I later rigged up some more secure "mounts so I could use it for a redneck run stand. It's also had a built Ford fe motor running on it with headers mounted. That harbor freight dolly is rated for 1,000lbs., I've got several of those in both sizes I use for storing transmissions, engines, etc., buy when in the sale paper and they are almost free!

 

[Benjamin7]

Thanks for the idea mayben. I think since I'm going to be going through the 392 for a bit, and then I'll have the 345 to go through as well, I'm just gonna invest in a cheap engine stand. I have tractors, so I don't need a cherry picker, so this all should go pretty well.
I've been searching for your "dead dawg" revival tips that trever was talking about but for the life of me I can't find it. I love this forum, but it's so packed with info sometimes it's hard to get what you want!
Trever, thanks for all of your imput. Greatly appreciated!

Ha, just found it mayben... I had to sort through your 118 threads and got back to (I think) your 3rd thread ever, so now I'm on it!
Never mind, I thought I found it, but no such luck... Where is it???? If mayben says it, I gotta have it!
Ok, I found a cheap build thread regarding the sonjamotor? Is this what we're talking about?