Torqueflite 727 Guapo

Oh but the patient pending on the drop bar... One peice, easy for one person... But time consuming... Like to have 3 folks and do it in an hour or less... Only thing I say is don't freak out you broke your passanger door... You just hit the door lock climbing out our in...
 
scoutboy74 said:
just to put a more fact-based cap on this notion of modifying or converting the tf 727 to overdrive...there are mopar kits available from gear vendors for this purpose, but they have no provision for the reverse texas adapter housing and married 4x4 t-case found in the sii 4x4. Their 4x4 kits are only for divorced units. So that pretty much bursts the bubble for an sii 4x4, unless your plans include hanging a divorced t-case also. Would you like a steaming can of worms to go along with your sauteed mushrooms?:icon_down:

now, in the case of a full-size 4x2 pick-all or a 4x2 sii, you could in theory tear down your trans, and if you had the necessary parts on hand, convert the entire output assy over to a mopar back half. That would then allow you to purchase and install a gv overdrive kit. Obviously, prop-shaft modification would be necessary due to the added length created by the gv unit.

As for a 4x4 pick-all, some creativity with regards to the intermediate shaft would likely be necessary, not to mention possible cross-member mods. Mushrooms! Get your your steaming hot, sauteed mushrooms! Get 'em while they're hot! And we haven't even talked $$$ yet. You think the 700r4 conversion is spendy? The gv kits run anywhere from $2800 to 3 large before shipping. Don't forget to add in the cost of all the other necessary items.

When you take everything into account, the 700r4 conversion is cheap by comparison, even in the case of a sii 4x4, which requires adapters on both ends.
Click to expand...

I almost had to purchase a new phone from upchucking my morning coffee laughing when I read this. Thanks - I think. Adding some moldy bread to the mix, I read briefly about the mopar kits on a completely different sight other than gear vendors. It was a pipe dream anyways. Just stirring the pot.

Hmmmm - new trail meal? Shroom covered can-o-worms spread onto moldy bread.


Btw - not easy installing tranny and tc in as a package deal by your self with out some cubic $$$$ spent on tools. Try installing both them attached to the motor all at the same time. Been there done that. Nice little balancing act with the manual hoist.

Key word = patience
 
scooter said:
Btw - not easy installing tranny and tc in as a package deal by your self with out some cubic $$$$ spent on tools. Try installing both them attached to the motor all at the same time. Been there done that. Nice little balancing act with the manual hoist.

Key word = patience
Click to expand...

Scooter I have it down to an artform... Can pull and put back in in 56 minutes now (after 5 attempts I have it down now... Thanks bro billy for flaking, so I had to do it myself) I'll be putting pics up later when I figure how to put pics...

As for adding a motor??? Are you crazy??? If you did that I'm in awe!!! You rock!!!

Ps... How do you post pics?:mad2:
 
When you're on the reply page, scroll down below the text window to where it says "manage attachments" and browse to your pics. If they're too large you May have to re-size them.
 
brandossii said:
scooter I have it down to an artform... Can pull and put back in in 56 minutes now (after 5 attempts I have it down now... Thanks bro billy for flaking, so I had to do it myself) I'll be putting pics up later when I figure how to put pics...

As for adding a motor??? Are you crazy??? If you did that I'm in awe!!! You rock!!!

Ps... How do you post pics?:mad2:
Click to expand...

For adding pics I mostly use the little paper clip thingy up at the top when I'm making any type of post. Then after hitting the browse button, it will bring up your photo album in explorer. If I use an image hosting site like photo bucket, then I will use the little square photo tab up at the top that looks like a little mountain baking under the sun.

As far as being crazy, weeeeel, I been called worse, so I'll kinda take that as a compliment. I actually did it with my first 72 Scout II that only a few who been to my man cave have seen. Which is stuck on financial hold for now. It was a complete motor & tranny transplant, of a Ford variety with both, that has a Klune-V and the oem rebuilt & re-geared Dana 20 tc. Was a wonderful balancing act of ballet in the driveway. And I did it by myself, which is the story of my wrenching life most all the time.
 
Really great information in this thread. Before I can even get there I need some quick help. I bought the 727 fromxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxi am converting the 304 manual in the 78 Scout II with a 345 and this automatic trans. I have 6 Scout II's to pick parts from. Obviously I need a flex plate, shifter cable and automatic shifter. The questions I have are:
1. Can I use a flex plate off of any year 304 automatic?
2. Are diesel engines counted out in this equation?
3. What else would I need for the coupling of the trans to the engine? I sow bearings in a ring on the same website as posted above.
4. Is there any differences in the transmission support or will I need an automatic support mount?
5. Any guidance that I May not have questioned would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Welcome to the forum. I removed your reference to the competing vendor as that is not allowed on this forum. I hope that outfit at least raped you more gently than they do their usual victims. Let's get to your questions.

1. No. From the mid-60's up through mid-'72, IH vehicles equipped with an auto trans utilized various borg warner models. Midway through the 1972 model year, those were phased out in favor of the chrysler tf a727 that you have. The bw and associated parts are not interchangeable with the a727 stuff.

2. Most definitely.

3. What all did the trans purchased form the vendor who must remain nameless come with? If it came set up to go in a sii 4x4, then it should have the special adapter housing to accept your d20 4x4 transfer case. It should also have a 727 auto bull gear to couple with the transfer case input gear. If it didn't come with a bull gear, you will need to source one. You will also need a starter spacer shim which goes between the starter motor and the engine block. This is necessary for proper starter drive gear to flex plate alignment.

4. I'm not sure if the transfer case cross brace differs between manuals and autos, but I do know that the mount and bushings can differ somewhat.

5. We're glad that you've found this forum and we'll try to help you the best we can. All that we ask in return is that you shop IH Parts America, the vendor who makes this forum possible, for any and all future part needs that you May have. You won't beat the customer service anywhere else and we're confident you'll find the pricing to be at least as good and in most cases better than that other place who's name should never be uttered in the presence of small children and the elderly:yikes:.
 
Unfortunately, no. There is not enough clearance between the low/reverse drum and the interior case wall to slip the engagement tangs of the band clear around the drum. Obviously, since you've been manipulating the adjustment screw you must not have found the band apply strut laying in the fluid pan or any other obvious issue with the l/r servo. Chances are your l/r band is broken, hence the lack of resistance encountered with the screw. The long and short is, this unit will need to come out for thorough autopsy and overhaul if restoration of reverse function is desired.
 
Apologies if this shows up twice, the first try seems to have
gone amiss.

Vehicle:
Scout 2, built April '72. 190k miles, owned since '87
engine: v345
trans: t407
axles: Dana 44 w/front disks, probably post-74, 3.07 installed
by anything Scout in e. Palo alto in 2003
transfer case: unknown, probably original

the issue:
backup lights on in park, park lock works, no drive in any position. Backup lights go off in neutral or drive
atf level reads high in neutral.

Background observations:
trans filter last serviced around 153k miles (1997), nothing done since.
Ran fine on 11/15/14, atf level ok
parked till 11/27/14, noticed the problem on startup
shift selector cable seems ok (not broken or stretching), all
the detents are nice and crisp with easy movement.
The rear transmission mount z plate seems to have gone
missing. Unclear if this is related (I think not).

I'm thoroughly stumped on this. At first it seemed like a shift
lever or cable problem, but the cable works more than well
enough to move the gear lever on the transmission.

It seems possible that a loose valve body might create both
a hydraulic leak and a misadjusted backup light switch, but
that takes ten screws coming loose while parked for two weeks.

Admittedly, I've never checked those screws in all the years
I've owned the car.

Thanks for reading and any guidance,

Bob prohaska

bp@www.zefox.net
 
It couldn't be that the t-case lever was inadvertently bumped into neutral? I would think the z-bar missing would allow a tremendous amount of vibration and clunky engagement when when things are functioning. The higher observed fluid level is suspicious. Makes me wonder if perhaps the pump is not circulating fluid. The reverse light malfunction is certainly odd, but I don't see it having a direct correlation to the trans malfunction. I think you'll dropping the fluid pan for an inspection soon.
 
It's embarrassing to admit that I didn't think of the transfer case
lever before you mentioned it. In the end it's unlikely to be the
issue, as the wheels "windmill" with the Scout up on jackstands
and the engine idling in any gear but park. Just to be sure I'll check again.

I do agree that taking the pan off is a very near step; I just want
to make sure that the relevant running tests have been done first.

As a matter of curiosity, how much would a flatbed tow from davis to Grass Valley cost? There isn't much I can fix beyond
replacing the filter and making sure the valve body screws are
tight.

Many thanks for reading and your counsel,

Bob prohaska
 
Yeah, probably not. As for relevant running tests, there are fluid pressure test ports on the right hand side of the case, but one must have some fluid gauges capable of fairly high psi readouts and some tech literature such as the torqueflite a727 handbook by carl munroe which spells out the testing procedures to make it a worthwhile endeavor. I have them, but I'm not anywhere near davis. You'd have to contact a towing company for rates. I'll wager that you could find a reputable trans repair shop local to you that could get to your job much quicker than IHPA could. I know from first hand experience that the guys are generally booked out quite a ways on projects.
 
I rechecked my earlier observations and added a couple of
new ones. Still no drive in any gear with t-case in 2h. Fluid
level remains high in neutral. The hand lever feels good, with
crisp detents and relatively low actuating force.

There's some radial play in the shift selector shaft, enough
to see by shining a flashlight in the shift lever opening while
rocking the shift hand lever. Less than a 16th inch, probably
more than a 32nd.

Backup lights are on solid in park, reverse and neutral. They go
off in drive. Rocking the shift lever does not make them flicker.

Oddly, the neutral safety switch works correctly,
starting only in neutral and park.

Given that the fluid level does not go down in neutral it seems
fairly likely that either the pump has quit or the manual valve
has slipped out of engagement with the manual lever. I'm in
no position to fix the pump, but I might be able to fix the lever.

I've read reports of band linkages falling out when allowed to
get too loose, in that case wouldn't the fluid level rise and fall
normally in going between park and neutral?

I'm not opposed to spending a little money on gauges, but
it's hard to imagine a scenario in which pulling the pan is not
the next step. If you can think of one please tell me.

If it has to go to a shop I'd prefer it be one where the car is not
older than the most experienced employee. I'm not there yet,
but it won't be a surprise if it happens.

Thanks for reading!

Bob prohaska
 
Can't tell if it's broken yet, but the manual shift lever is clearly
disengaged from the manual spool. How it found clearance to
escape seems to be the remaining question. Apparently the
next step is to drop the valve body, which raises a couple other
questions:

I've given the factory manual a close reading and watched a few
videos. Nobody says a word about gaskets or o-rings, or other
loose parts prone to falling out when lowering the valve body.
What is there to be wary of?

The manual cautions to put a drain pan under the valve body
when removing it. How much extra fluid will come out? There's
space for only a couple quarts in my catch vessel.

I've got a few photos if anybody's curious, but they need to
be resized for posting and I don't know how to do that yet.

Thanks to everyone for reading and offering guidance.

Bob prohaska
 
Can the valve body be removed and reinstalled without disturbing
the nss? It's tough to get at, and the wiring is hardened to the
point of feeling brittle.

I can't see any obvious reason to remove it, is there some hidden
interference issue?

Thanks for reading, and any guidance.

Bob prohaska
 
No need to remove the nss to get the vb out. The shift and throttle valve linkages both need to be removed if not already. There are a series of hex head fasteners that retain the vb in the case. Don't touch the phillips and/or slotted head screws. Your catch pan should be adequate as most of the spillage will come with the fluid pan removal. The park pawl rod is held to the rooster comb with a cir-clip. You can remove the cir-clip and leave the rod in the case, but the cir-clip is easy to lose and difficult to put back in place from under the rig. The other option is to wiggle the long end out and away from the governor leaving the short end still attached to the rooster. This is kind of a ticklish process and you don't want to tug or twist on the the vb. It helps to gently rock the rear drive shaft back and forth to find a sweet spot that will release the tension on pawl rod so that the ratcheting part will disengage from the governor. The choice of how to deal with the rod will come down to what you feel most comfortable with. I can't make that decision for you, but I will say that I've always chosen option b. The accumulator spring usually drops out when the vb comes down. No biggie. Just don't lose it or forget to put it back ahead of the vb when you reinstall. The accumulator piston should have enough interference from the seal ring to keep it up in the bore. That's about it for things that go bump in the night when the vb is removed.
 
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