Torqueflite 727 Guapo

Thanks. Yep, I can vouch for the 727, I pulled it myself out of the cordoba. I jumped on it when I saw that it was an original 400 big block with the 727. Most had the sb 360. It was the proverbial "little ole' lady" from brainard, ne who had it. Pulling the engine apart, I cannot believe how clean the engine is, but it is getting a complete rebuild anyway.

That is the plan, I am taking the sii tranny, the mopar tranny, the 20 and a copy of this thread and go to the shop in lincoln that does performance tranny work and discuss.

Now if I can just find "soft corinthian leather" for the Scout interior....
 
Have likely a simple shift cable install question. I'm replacing what appears to be a generic shift cable thrown on the 727 on my 72 Scout to get it moving but I believe is the cause for trouble engaging properly into gear. I ordered a new IH cable from IH only but it the threaded cable ends are slightly different. There is a directional arrow on the cable but I want to know if there is a correct direction to install the cable or can it be installed either end at either end. My gut tells me there is a proper direction, I.e. The arrow points toward the tranny or the arrow points towards the shift lever.
 
Its been awhile since I had one of those cables in my hands, but I seem to recall it being the same on either end. The fittings that are attached to either threaded end are different. The transmission end needs a clevis fitting and the gear selector end needs a pivot stud fitting, which is secured to the shifter with a cotter key. The cable is actually more of a flexible rod which slides back and forth inside a protective sheath. The shift linkage at the transmission will be all the way towards the rear of the vehicle in park. The exposed part of the cable should be connected to the shifter end so that when the shifter is moved rearward towards l1, the motion forces the exposed end of the cable back through the sheath, which in turn will force the shift linkage forward. Your key start should only engage in neutral and park when the adjustment is correct.
 
Doing a 1973 727 overhaul like the one in the excellent write up on this forum. You seem to be well versed in the 727. Long story short, while the valve body was apart, the table was hit by a fork lift! I reorganised all the parts and in the end I am stuck on 3 very similar springs, one is painted light blue and according to the write up on here it is probably for the throttle valve. The other two are almost the same lenghth but one is a little heavier/stiffer. One old timer told me the stiffer one goes on the converter control valve and the other is for the shuttle valve, a valve body I saw today had the stiffer one in the shuttle valve and the converter spring was blue!! Can you shed any light on this?
 
firetech said:
doing a 1973 727 overhaul like the one in the excellent write up on this forum. You seem to be well versed in the 727. Long story short, while the valve body was apart, the table was hit by a fork lift! I reorganised all the parts and in the end I am stuck on 3 very similar springs, one is painted light blue and according to the write up on here it is probably for the throttle valve. The other two are almost the same lenghth but one is a little heavier/stiffer. One old timer told me the stiffer one goes on the converter control valve and the other is for the shuttle valve, a valve body I saw today had the stiffer one in the shuttle valve and the converter spring was blue!! Can you shed any light on this?
Click to expand...

Sorry for not seeing this sooner. In case you're still dealing with this issue, I've provided a link to a thread which contains good color pics of the valve body disassembled and the valve springs in their correct orientation. Scroll down to post 37.

http://forums.IHPartsAmerica.com/transmission-tech/6521-727-rebuild-help-3.html
 
Ok here is my "stoopid" question for the day... I have my 727 out on the bench. Came out of a 75 sii... She was rebuilt and new seals and gaskets all around. My question before I put it back in (by myself as my "buddy" who was going to help went fishing) I have 2 questions... First the torque converter seems sloppy to me but others say it's fine... How much slop should there be? And second should I be able to turn the front splines by hand? Thanks for any answers.
 
The most important, critical, vital, crucial, monumental thing about installing the torque converter, is making sure the alignment slots are properly engaged with the tabs on the pump drive gears, and making double damn sure that the converter is fully seated in the case before you attempt snugging the case to the engine. When you have it in all the way, there will be very little finger space between the back of the converter and the bell shape of the case. Another way to tell is by holding a straight edge across the front machined surface of the case. The converter should be inside the straight edge. Why is converter seating so important? Because you'll either destroy the case while snugging the bolts down...major bummer, or you'll shear the alignment tabs clean off the pump gears the first time you crank the starter...medium bummer. Replacement drive gears are available from several online vendors and are not that big of a deal to replace, but still, you're better off not breaking them. As easy as it is to get this wrong, its damn near as easy to get it right. You just need to mind your p's and q's and take your time. Check yourself before you wreck yourself.

Yes, the rotating assembly should rotate clockwise by hand when the selector is not in park. The one-way clutch will only allow rotation in one direction, hence the name.
 
Ok so a few more questions I hope you don't mind sharing experience and knowledge about stuff I don't know yet (if it was manual trans no prob but still un-sure about how an auto does what it does... But trying to learn)

I had to pull my trans because I was away working and didn't get the chance to put anti-freeze in non running Scout. Popped the back and front plugs. Pulled out trans to fix freeze plugs and figured I'd do the tail shaft gasket as it leaks like crazy woman, and did seals... Felt like sea-world circa 92, get rid of bad seals for new ones.

So pulled out trans and marked the fly wheel and tc so they go back the same. Did the work. And went to put it back in. I put the tc on the shaft and turned it till it dropped and rotated more and it dropped again. Looks to be even with the bell housing.

I through it on jacks and crap and got it stabbed in there. Got bolts going and could finger tight until about an 1 1/4 gap between motor and trans... Break out wrenches time... Tightened it up to 1/2 inch gap (all around even-ish) then started reading (re-reading these posts and now worried about it being lined up right) with a 1/2 inch gap I can turn motor with breaker bar, and turn tc with screw driver in the slots of nut holes... Final line up of tc - flywheel bolts (off by 1/8 inch clock wise) if I have less of a gap I cant turn shit for shine-ola... Is this normal??? Or should I still be able to turn it and I don't have it right? It bolted easy (as easy as you'd expect for limited work space) and no "snap, crackle or pops" as it bolted up... So just worried and wondering before I put exhaust and all back, and then have to tear it apart again. When they are bolted together can you turn them? How do you know the tc is aligned with the trans? Am I stressing over nothing? Any advice would be great...

Thanks
brando:mad2:
 
Hail no I don't mind helping out where I can. That's a big part of why this forum exists. Purpose one is to support sales through IHPA and purpose two is to help folks keep these piles rollin' down the road. When the two notions cross paths its a beautiful thing. And these aren't stupid questions either. What would be stupid is just plowing ahead without asking any questions on something like this when you aren't sure what you're doing.

Okay, so when the tc is fully seated, and the trans is all snugged up to the engine, it should be necessary to slide the tc forward a miniscule amount to contact the flexplate so the small bolts can be run in. If the flexplate is pressing against the tc preventing you from moving it rearward so that it will spin freely by hand...stop! The tc isn't seated properly. The tc should be able to turn freely by hand when no converter bolts are in place. If it does, carry on. When the tc is fastened securely to the flexplate you should be able to turn the engine and all over by hand with the safe method of your choice. If you can't do that...stop! Do not bump the engine over with the starter if you can't first budge it by hand. You're going to have to rotate the thing all the way around to get all four bolts properly torqued. Safest way to do it is by hand anyway, although I've cheated carefully with a handheld remote starter button before (have main coil wire disconnected to prevent accidental startup). If you try that without first making sure it will rotate by hand, you'll bust the pump gear. Stater motor is pretty strong. Hopefully this is all clear enough. If there's any doubt in your mind whatsoever, back the assembly out and down to where you can manhandle the tc again and redo your tc stab. Yeah, its extra work, but better safe than sorry. You didn't know then what you know now when you stabbed it before. I just want to be perfectly clear that I am not advising you to haul off and light the fires. I've given you the parameters and things to look for, but you'll have to make the call on whether to come ahead or skin 'er back a few feet for a new purchase on the sumbitch...copy?
 
Thank you scoutboy74... I wasn't sure so haven't done anything on that yet... Been finishing the re-wire for the new dash and stereo stuff... So I'll re-drop it, my question is how to be sure its aligned up right??? Any tricks? And thank you!!! If ever in oregon well hit a trail and bbq...
 
I is an oreganonion born and bred. Up until late last year, I was just down the road from you in sweatsford, but I had to relocate north to my old stomping grounds near canyonville.

When you pull the tc out all the way, you'll notice a notch cut out on either side of the center tube that slides over the trans input shaft. If you shine a light up inside the gap between the input shaft and the reaction shaft, you'll see two tabs sticking up. You want to align the slots on the tc so that they line up with those pump notches. When the tc drops all the way in fully seated, it is possible to pinch your pudgy fingers between it and the case if you have them slid back in there too far. That's how little space there is between the tc and the case when fully seated. As I alluded to before, the tc will actually be able to slide back and forth a small amount when the trans case is snugged to the back of the block. It can't possibly slide too far forward at that point that the tabs will lose contact with the slots. They'll stay engaged. You can slide it back a smidge so that it can be spun free and easy, get the holes between it and the flexplate all lined up and then slide it forward up against the fp and run your little bolts in. Whole assembly should now rotate as one. That is, provided you didn't hook up the prop shaft first. Don't do that. Get your trans all squared away first. Then hook up the prop shaft. Clear as mud?
 
Orygan boy huh??? Wasn't born here, but did have the years that make you who you are up here... Big city guy (la and ny) but don't hate me for that... Do it for work, but a ducks fan to heart as my high school was kelley green and gold... And did a sem at uofo before going to uofk... Go wild cats... So gonna drop it out tomorrow, again... And will hit you back for more info... Can you (if you don;t mind) pm me with a number for any "o' shit what now moments... Send you a nice bottle of wine... Or case of rogue beer, you chose... Thanks man and next time in so o let me know... Bbq... Got killer elk back strap...
 
Nah, I don't hate a person for wanting to leave the big city behind in favor of the country. Just so long as you aren't the type of transplant who feels compelled to mold their calm, new surroundings into some facsimile of what they just escaped from, but on a smaller scale. My avatar kinda says it all. Hack off a chunk of south'n orygone, hack off a chunk of norcal, slap 'em together to form the state of jefferson. The progressive scrus in sukremento, hell-a, stalem, and putzland can keep doing what they've been doing. I like visiting those places, but I'm not interested in their all-seeing, all-knowing master plan.

Got your dexmerc atf ready to go? There, I thankfully took the discussion from irrelevant philosophical/political bullshizz back to relevant tech talk. Bam! We're right back on track. But now I must derail it again to discuss a topic of even greater importance...tender, juicy, mouth-watering wapiti flesh warshed down with micro-suds. That's livin' right there. Its been a half dozen years since I last gave a bull dirt nap, but I hunt with a large party and we always share in the community spoils at the end of every season. I appreciate your offer of hospitality. I haven't visited the rv in several months, but I owe a friend in meddy some hands-on assistance with his misbehaving 727 soon. I'll try to remember to give you a shout when that day comes. Check your pm basket.
 
If you're starting out from empty (tc & fluid pan drained) it will take roughly 9 qts give or take 1. May as well buy a 12 quart case. That way you have a few extreez on hand. Some people like to dump a few qts into the tc before installing it. I've never bothered with that step and I've never had a problem getting the level right. When I'm at the point where its time to add fluid and I know the thing is completely empty to begin with, I'll dump 7 qts down the fill tube, fire up the engine and let it warm up with the shifter in neutral. Always remember with a stock 727, the converter will not fill up with fluid while the shifter is in park. That's by design and that's why it says right on the dipstick and in the service manual to only check the fluid level while hot idling in neutral. With 7 qts in, I'm probably not going to see any fluid on the stick yet. Whether I do or don't its fine either way because I'm still adding. Dump another qt in, slowly cycle the shifter through each gear position and then back to neutral. Shove in the dipstick and take another peek. Now I'm probably seeing some fluid on the stick, but I'm probably not in the safe range yet. Once you have fluid registering a little ways up the dipstick, start thinking in terms of pints not quarts. Getting these units overfull is just as bad as not enough. You want the goldielocks approach. If I'm not in the safe range yet, I'm probably looking at 2 pints or 1 qt still to get it there. If I'm flirting with the bottom line, I probably will just dump half a bottle in which is 1 pt and check it again. Once I'm well within the safe range, its time to go for a short test ride and grab some gears. If all goes well, when I come back, I'll check the level one more time in neutral and figure out how many more pts, if at all I need to get that level up pretty close to the top Mark. I like to achieve and maintain a fluid level that is just a sliver below the top line. Anywhere within the safe range is...well, safe to operate, but I figure why flirt with running it too low? Give yourself some cushion.
 
Ok... Tc is out and back in... I run a level across the front of bell housing and go crazy from chicken hollerin in my ears... I have about an 1/8 of an inch from nub on tc to level down side... She seems good...
 
I hope you're having luck getting the tc to come out. I came across suggestions similar to the one I gave you for trying to get it to fall out. The more I think about this, the more I'm thinking you didn't have the tc fully seated this time either. I can judge pretty well when one is in when I can physically see it and feel it, but trying to make that judgement call over the nets or by phone isn't so easy. I consulted the service manual for more guidance and came across a method for making dead certain that the tc is fully seated. It involves a straight edge and a measuring device. When the tc is fully seated, there will be a half inch gap between the straight edge and any of the contact pads where the flexplate bolts thread into. I'm sorry I didn't stumble on that tidbit until now. Like I told you on the phone last time we spoke, I'm still learning new things all the time. Hopefully no damage has been done and you will be able to make a clean attempt at this once more.
 
Ok... Update time. After spending all night on this subject of tc stuck in trans I come up with a lot of info... Seems to happen most in cry, jeeps and fords. Lots of ways people have got theirs out. From bolting the tc to a branch in the neighbors tree and dropping it until it came out... Or the guy who cut his out with a grinder... Interesting stuff.

I used two posts, some chain and a come-a-long... It popped right out. The front spline looks fine. Back spline has a few small barbs. Tc looks perfect.

So now some file on the barbs and see from there. Now just need to know how to make sure it's aligned right this time???

Ps... Thanks 4 all the help trevor...
 
Glad your were able to get it out with no horrible damage done. File the barbs down and you should be good to go as long as the tabs on the pump drive gear are still where they're supposed to be. As for definitive, its all there in my previous post. Flat edge across the case opening...measure a half inch clearance between it and any one of the flexplate bolt pads. If you get that measurement, you're golden. Anything less than a half inch means danger danger will robinson! Attach a c-clamp or vice grips up against the face of the tc once you get it fully seated to keep it from sliding forward until you get the case up in place.
 
I can get it in there... Oops, just realized cap lock was on... Ok, I can look through the seal and see the two tabs. I can get the tc on there, run a level across it too measure the pads and I have about 5/16 gap. I'm going to replace the front seal so maybe I'll get a better looksie when doing that... Any way to tell if tabs are good?

Still pounding my head against the wall :mad2:
 
If you see the tabs, then they're fine. If you'd busted one or both off, you wouldn't be able to see them until they fell out on the ground as little chunks. 5/16ths ain't a half inch, but its closer than 1/8th. The next time you install the converter, set the trans case up in a secure manner with the opening facing up. That way you'll have gravity on your side. Consider wearing gloves 'cause when that heavy ass tc with gravity behind it drops home, it will smash the shit out of your fingertips if they're underneath it. Ask me how I know that one! You're doing alright. You didn't want to nail this the first time out of the gate, did ya? What fun would that be? Come on, enjoy it a little! Tee hee hee hee.
 
Trev... Pulled the seal out and got a good looksie in there... There are two tabs one at 12 one at 6... They both have space behind them and turn free... I have the transfer case attached so standing it up will be a challenge (but not impossible) and I've massed my fingers enough on this. I'm guessing the tabs slide in the slots in the tc???
 
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