I-4 and SV Engine Non-Oiling Rocker Assembly

Actually sm has even less of the precious zinc/phospho than does sl. The higher the letter next to the 's', the newer the blend, and consequently less z/p in the mix. Sm is pretty much all that's available on the shelves any more. Ihon sells swepco brand oil which has not lowered their percentage of z/p. There is also a separate tech section dedicated to swepco oil and dick f. The moderator of that section is quite a resource of knowledge regarding vehicle lubricants. Well worth taking a look at for more info on the subject of motor oils and older engines.
 
Well it dont matter anywhooo. Got her all back together today and now that the valvetrain is workin like its sposed to I can hear a piston slap at an idle and low rpm's. New this was gettin to easy, it runs ok, but is gunna need a new engine before winter sets in. I guess old age got to her. Made a deal today for a 62 I had my eye on.............the 152 in it is in purdy good shape, quite and everythang. Never hurts to have extra parts anyhow.
 
Just want to pose an idea for discussion, I have lots of 9 stand rocker shafts, all showing alot of wear from the welded type rockers, would it be possible to flip them over, use boat style rockers with the 9 stands to move the wear area to the other side? Is this feasable or am I just putting off a major problem for a few miles.....
Thanks,
steve
 
Flipping a nine stand/welded rocker shaft over and using with boat rockers is feasible. Look at post #58 in this thread and you will see one.

That means the witness marks on the nine stand rocker will be mounted down. The plugs should also be removed and the rocker shaft cleaned internally and then re-plugged.

You will also have to use the ball/ball pushrods that work only with boat rockers. The rockers and spacers are installed in the same order as the original welded rockers, no spacer springs will be used if using nine rocker stands.

Boat rockers are a totally sloppy fit on the rocker shaft, not a snug "bushing" fit like the welded rockers. The bearing point against the shaft are only those two distinct wear pads on either side of the oil hole.
 
pyro3256 said:
do you use the nylon pellet bolts? If so where do you get the new nylon from? How much for some bolts? The washers apear to be oem. But bolts are just standard hardware. They are correct length @ 3 1/4" from bottom of head to tip of threads.
With a 1/8" thick washer. I have 5 stands per head so need 10 total. Thanks
Click to expand...

You need to make sure the 5/16" washers are "narrow"/small od. The regular gr8 washers I bought from the hardware store are too large and run the risk of catching the rocker arm.

Be careful.

Also, from memory, the 9-stand rockers used gr5 bolts, the 5 stand used gr8, and I thought the torque specs were different between the two.

That said, I just pulled gr8 bolts from a 9-stand assembly in my shed, so I'm likely wrong on that front. :d
 
Hi all I am in the middle of rebuilding my 152 out of a 63 Scout 80 and I tore down my rocker assembly and found a perfect example of a shot valve train I am wondering if anyone knows where to get a new rocker arm shaft from?? Also during my rebuild process the storage device for my lifters was knocked down (dog) and now I have no idea which lifter came from which hole. Do I have to replace them or is there someway to reuse them?
 
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In every case I have seen with an old high mileage sv/4 banger the cam and lifters are past their usable life.
If you mix up the lifter location even on a low mileage cam and lifter set the chances that they will not mate well are high. The metal from the bad and rapid wear condition can damage the entire engine.
I recommend renewing both the cam and lifters. If you can detect any lifter cupping at all the set is done and cam needs to be reground. Only if the can is close to new would I recommend only replacing the lifters. Then going through the standard new cam break in procedure.

If you would like you could post some clear close up images of the cam and lifters we could give you a prognosis.

As for the replacement rocker shaft, 9 stand shafts are no longer availible but call IH Parts America Monday morning and see if the remanufactured assemblies are on the shelf. If you have bad shafts you will need rockers also.
 
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I just finished rebuilding my 152 and I go to prime the oil system and I have pressure (40 psi) but no oil to the cylinder head I removed the rocker arm and shot compressed air down the oil passage after a second I can hear air in the crankcase then if I prime I get oil out of the head for a second and then it stops?? I think there is something blocking the oil passage between the head and cam bearing unless anyone else has any ideas?? Is there anyway to clean the passage without removing the head or tearing down the engine:nonod:?

It is also worth mentioning that I tore down the rocker arm shaft and cleaned it per the instructions in this thread
.
 
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Dig through Robert kenney's posts from the last few months. He recently posted a drawing depicting the oil flow path you need to see. The associated threads explain it thoroughly.
Good luck. Let us know how you do.
 
Any information on the IH adjustable rocker arms to add, mayben? They were used on palmer marine spec IH 392s.

Are these the same as the set Isa Ismail is rumored to have?

adjustablerockers.jpg
 
I made a pair of arms. Push out the ball stud and the hole is good to thread 5/16-18 or 24. I stoped short of buying the adjuster. I found a source in one of the comercial rocker arm rebuilders. If I recall he would sell them to me for a couple of bucks per. Jest need one long enough to make the distance through the arm. When I threaded the arm I machined the top flat for the lock nut.

Mm is more or less missing but I am sure he has no source for the adjustable arm as we talked about it a while back.
 
michael mayben said:
in order to try and keep all resources regarding the topic of this thread in one place, I'll re-post a document I've prepped (it's in draft form and has not had the jpegs embedded) regarding how to treat these motors that have been sitting non-rotated for several months/years.

The whole idea here is to prevent wiping out the cam bearings during initial dry-start rotation of the crank/cam shafts. Much of the time, the cam bearings in these engines are not damaged going in, but will quickly fail if a proper pre-lube procedure is not performed. All it takes is about three rotations of a "dry" cam that has "stuck" to the babbit layer of the cam bearing to wipe 'em out. From that point on, it's all down hill, no way to go back and "fix" anything except for replacing the cam bearings with new!
Click to expand...
Is there a version of this "old iron" document that has the missing photos? Thanks!
 
weswsimpson said:
is there a version of this "old iron" document that has the missing photos? Thanks!
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, I don't think so. And as life happens, he has not had a chance to update some of the missing information. Unless another forum member has some of the information elsewhere
 
Ok so I went through the old iron part 1 deal. Spun the oil pump with a shaft I made. It didn’t take too long and lots of oil was coming out the drivers side rocker shaft. Turned motor over by hand a little bit spun it again this time lots of oil on the passenger side. Here is the question: if I am getting good flow up that high shouldn’t my in dash oil pressure gage go up? Because it did not. And I think it should have. Do I need the battery hooked up isn’t the gage electronic? Is my gage bad? I don’t have a pressure tester. What is my problem

thanks
 
Yes, the factory gauge is electric and does require energy from the battery via the ignition switch in order to register. Beyond that, there could be an issue with the op sender which is threaded into the block on the driver side, or the wire running from the sender to the gauge, or the gauge itself. You could temporarily install a mechanical op gauge which would eliminate the potential electrical concerns and would provide a numerical reference that is quite a bit more meaningful than what is displayed by the stock unit. In the future, I recommend starting a unique thread for your issue(s) in favor of tagging onto a somewhat unrelated existing thread.
 
Hi guys,

this is in regard to my '72 Scout II. It has a 304 engine 9 stud rocker assembly with "boat" rocker arms. I've had it for about 8 months and been driving it regularly for about 7 months. I changed the oil as soon as I got it, I use 20-50w quaker state oil and a wix filter and I change the oil every 3-5000 miles. I have 3.07 rears and 33" tires so I tend to run low revs.

There has always been a pronounced valve clicking noise that has kind varied a bit over time but never gone away completely. I tried some marvel mystery oil a couple of times but no real effect. I also went the extra quart of oil which had a small effect. Btw, this completely eliminated valve clicking in my son's Scout. I also always have good oil pressure, the pressure behaves as expected also, 40-50psi when cold, then 10psi hot at idle and constant revs and 20psi hot and accelerating.

The engine has started easily, felt and sounded tight and had plenty of get up and go. So lately the valve noise has started to really hammer and if I drovep say ten highway miles it would start to chug and almost sound like it was backfiring. I have a very short drive to work so I don't normally have this happen.

So I decided it was time to pop the covers and clean all the lifters since I have always assumed that the noise was from a stuck lifter. When I pulled of the passenger cover I found 3-4 of the rocker arms slopping around.

As you can see from pictures pass_1.jpg to pass_4.jpg the rocker assembly looks quite dry and has some definite sludge. I had my son crank the motor for a while and no oil appeared. I then poured some oil down onto each lifter and also by the drain back hole. I then had my son crank the engine again, the lifters all pumped up and you could see the pushrods rotating.

Pass_1.jpg

Pass_2.jpg

Pass_3.jpg

Pass_4.jpg

I then removed the rocker assembly and had my son crank the engine again, no oil came out of the supply hole in the head. The oil I put by the return hole did drain back into the engine. Pass_5 and pass_6 show the head after rocker assembly removal

Pass_5.jpg

Pass_6.jpg

Pass_7 thru pass_9 show some of the rocker assembly. The stands that pass oil have wide opening instead of separate hole as you can see. Also I was surprised at the amount of crud considering how nice the outside of the engine looks and how peppy it is.

Pass_7.jpg

Pass_8.jpg

I then pulled out a lifter from one of the two center cylinders on the passenger side (the two center cylinders had the most rocker arm play) and promptly had the spring sail away never to be seen again. The bottom of the lifter looks fine I think ans you can see in tapp_1 thru tapp_3.

Pass_9.jpg

Tapp_1.jpg

Tapp_2.jpg

I then popped off the driver side valve cover and it also looks quite dry but you can see a little more oil along the bottom edge of the head. Driv_1 thru driv_4. I had my son crank the engine again and no oil flow to be seen.

Tapp_3.jpg

Driv_1.jpg

Driv_2.jpg

Driv_3.jpg

Driv_4.jpg

I took out the distributor and chucked up an oil pump spinner that I made up. The oil pressure comes up as expected but I didn't get to rotate the crankshaft to line op the holes for oil flow to the rockers, ran out of daylight.

So my plan is to clean the rocker assembly I removed and then all of the passenger lifters. I will then reassemble and re install the rocker assembly.

I also plan to spin the oil pump again and move the crank until I see some oil flow. Then I will do a pressure test.

I would have thought that if there is no oil flow at all to the rocker assembly that the engine simply wouldn't run at all because all of the lifters would collapse. In my case the center lifters were low but the far forward ones and the ones by the firewall weren't, if the oil flow was anemic I would have expected the forward lifter to be compressed since they are higher than the others and less likely to get some of a limited supply of oil.

All the small holes in the rocker shaft seem to be clear, I didn't pul the caps out so I couldn't look into the shaft directly.

I think it's too soon to tell if I have a serious problem until I do the pump spin with the crank in the right place. If I don't get good flow/pressure this means I have a bad cam bearing? I haven't seen any metal come out of the oil drain hole. Should I drop the pan?

Lots of stuff to read, hope you haven't fallen asleep.

Take care,
harry

ps how do you make pics appear inthe post instead of just links?
 
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Post #16 of thread
michael mayben said:
Here ya see one pressure gauge connected to the main gallery where the oem oil pressure ending unit is connected. That allows oil pressure at that point to be read when the drill motor is spinnin'.

The second pressure gauge is connected to an "adapter" I fabbed to allow oil pressure/flow to be measured at the critical feed point in the cylinder head simutaneously.
Click to expand...

Any special requirements on the gauges? Are theyt made to measure oil pressure?
 
Harry, I absolutely think you should cut to the chase and drop your oil pan. I hate to say it, but I think upon doing so you will find evidence of cam bearing de-lamination in the form of grey sludge similar to what is seen escaping from several of your rocker stand bolts, and quite likely also non-ferrous cam bearing kibble as well. Both your valve trains and top surfaces of your heads are grotesque. Your lifters surfaces look severely dished instead of perfectly smooth as they should be. I hate to be the voice of doom, but I've been down this road before. Of course, I'd be delighted if I was wrong, but I don't think I am.
 
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