I-4 and SV Engine Non-Oiling Rocker Assembly

Robert kenney said:
well then it seems pointless to beat this dead horse.... Good luck with the rebuild.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry if I said something wrong, I was trying to clarify things that I said earlier that might not have been clear. As you guys have said many times before if we don't give complete enough info you can't give us good analysis.

Again, I apologize for any offense
 
Hi guys,

got my engine out and torn down, got lots of pictures on the way. I will start a new thread for that. Right now I am putting up pics of the oil pan, where I did find some metal. I also found the cam slopping around, to the tune of a 1/16" of an inch at least!

Probably my doing too, should have assumed bearings were dry but I did drive it 5-10000 miles before any symptoms showed, it might have been normal wear when you consider the state of the lifters (previous posts)

anyway, here are oil pan and cam bearing shots.

DSC_0476.jpg

DSC_0477.jpg

DSC_0479.jpg

DSC_0507.jpg

DSC_0510.jpg

DSC_0511.jpg
 
No, not that I know of. Unless one of us dicker with it it won't be updated any time soon. Mm is no longer active in the IH world as far as I know.
 
The IH service manual contradicts itself on rocker arm shaft orientation. In the manual (cts-2130-k) page 34, figure 109 and para 7 says the notch should be oriented "up". Later on page 53, para 28, says the notch should be facing "down". Not sure why the discrepancy. I have the 9 stand, welded type and am planning to go with "up" orientation based on reading this thread. Any thoughts on why the manual lists conflicting guidance? Am I missing something?
Thanks
 
Thread sealant: since I do not have the nylon locking bolts for the rocker stands I had planned on using blue thread locker to both lock and seal the threads. I noticed mention of just using permatex #2. Any reason not to use blue locker? I also have high temp thread sealant, but was concerned about lack of locking strength.
Thanks.
-karl
 
chopperkarl said:
the IH service manual contradicts itself on rocker arm shaft orientation. In the manual (cts-2130-k) page 34, figure 109 and para 7 says the notch should be oriented "up". Later on page 53, para 28, says the notch should be facing "down". Not sure why the discrepancy. I have the 9 stand, welded type and am planning to go with "up" orientation based on reading this thread. Any thoughts on why the manual lists conflicting guidance? Am I missing something?
Thanks
Click to expand...

Probably just a discrepancy between revisions.

Welded rockers go one way, stamped boat rockers have the oil holes/notches the other way.

Boat need to have the oil holes down, welded up. Iirc
 
Great run down on the oil system and start up procedure . I have 345 ci 1110 pickup it has sitting in the woods for about 20 years. I started it up it ran well and then it promptly bent two push rods. I tore it down , rings bearings lifters and valves. It all looked good no metal on the ( babbitt) flakes did not touch the cam so far the lubrication system is doing what it is supposed to except the right bank lifters don't appear to be getting oil pressure. That is the right side sounds like it has badley adjusted solid lifters is it possible for the rocker to get oil and not the lifters. I did notice the pulsating feed to the rockers that works. Any suggestions???
Gordon
 
elleygoco said:
great run down on the oil system and start up procedure . I have 345 ci 1110 pickup it has sitting in the woods for about 20 years. I started it up it ran well and then it promptly bent two push rods. I tore it down , rings bearings lifters and valves. It all looked good no metal on the ( babbitt) flakes did not touch the cam so far the lubrication system is doing what it is supposed to except the right bank lifters don't appear to be getting oil pressure. That is the right side sounds like it has badley adjusted solid lifters is it possible for the rocker to get oil and not the lifters. I did notice the pulsating feed to the rockers that works. Any suggestions???
Gordon
Click to expand...

First off spitting pushrods is very common on an old stagnant IH sv engine for two reasons.
1) is old fuel and varnish deposits in the fuel system that will dissolve in fresh fuel and stick intake valves in a hurry. Usually the sticking and resultant bent pushrods occur after a run and restart where the fuel dries in the guide and leaves the varnish behind.
Fix is to flush out all lines, fuel valves and, tanks to remove the old fuel varnish. New fuel and acetone mixed 50/50 works well.
Refill with fresh gas.
For the next time you run the engine take it for a long drive or run it for a long tine with fresh oil to work the varnish out of the guides and allow oil to get in well.

2) seizing of valves in guides do to a failed #2 of #4 cam bearing. Verify oil flow by taking an old valve cover and cutting the top off so you can view the oil supply to the rockers. Repeat on both banks.

Here is a oil flow diagram that shows how the oil passages direct oil to the rocker assemblies and valves. The center bearing shown represents the #2 and #4 cam bearing. Each one of these bearings supply oil to one head.

http://forums.IHPartsAmerica.com/showthread.php?t=7737

The lifters oil is supplied by the rear cam bearing. The rear cam bearing passes oil that is supplied from the main bearing below, into a common cavity (covered by a plate with 4 bolts) at the rear of the block. Because the right and left lifter oil galleries are fed from the common cavity, they will either both get oil or not. In some cases, if oil flow is compromised and low the supply can be
 
Great info thanks very much. As much as I hate to I think I will pull the intake manifold and make sure oil is making its way to all the lifters. Since I looked at the 2 jpgs (your drawing) and the other one out of the manual I have a pretty good idea what to inspect. If I run the pump with a drill should have continuous or pulsating oil flow to the lifers??? I am getting pulsating oil to both rockers. If I remove the rear lifters on both sides run the oil pump and get oil then all I need to do is verify the gallery is clear all the way to the front. Right ? If not then out with the cam to inspect all the bearings . At this point I have 25 psi at an idle
thanks again gordon
 
You can view oil oozing out from around the lifters through the pushrod holes in the heads. Simply remove a valve cover and spin the pump.
The rear cam journal does have a groove around it so oil will flow at a constant but lower rate at any clocking position. There is a cross hole in the journal that will provide much greater flow while it is vertical. You could try it at it's random position first as it will eventually fill the galleries and show up around the lifter and bore.
 
Thanks Robert. I will peek through the push rod holes and make sure I have oil oozing out around all lifters and report back all lifters are new, all pushrods are new, all. Valves and guides were checked and lapped in rods , mains and rings replaced along with new oil pump . I did not know about the pulsating oil to the rockers till I read your thread. Thank you. Gordon
 
Michael its gordon. I was able to see all the lifters and the are getting oil plenty of oil. I did however find 3 bent push rods I think gummy old fuel caused the valve to stick on start up I also found on ton of play in the rocker shaft itself. I am going to verify the sticking valve theory. Tomorrow by turning it over by hand with plugs out. Any suggestions on cleaning the valve stems. Gordon
 
Hi gordon, unfortunately for all, michael mayben has retired from all forms of IH iron. He is missed by all. 😔
do you have the boat or welded rockers? Play while less than desirable, is not by itself the cause of the noise. More than likely you have multiple valves not moving correctly.

To clean the guides, use carduretor cleaner sprayed on the stem and guides. Multiple applications and followed my a quality spray oil. I recommend removing the spring and working the valve till free. Repeat for each. If you do chose to remove the springs do it one at a time. Replace the oring seals or stem seals depending on type installed.
 
:
Robert I cleaned the valve stems with carb cleaner then sprayed stems with a combination of spray graphite and silicone spray ran the engine for about 2 hours all went well
now all I need is a set of rocker shafts hush up the clatter
will let you know how changing the rockers works out
gordon
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top