Torqueflite 727 Guapo

235frog said:
not the good news that I was hoping for. :icon_cry: I will mess with it some more tomorrow and hopefully can get the converter to engage with the pump. Otherwise I will just pull the tranny and wait for the $$ to get it rebuilt.
How much does a pump usually go for? And since that would need to be replaced I might as well have it freshened up and do the Jeep tailshaft conversion at the same time. Boy, the wife is going to hate me.
Click to expand...

I have a few more used pump gear sets, unless the trans was heavily contaminated with water and set, there should be no corrosion inside the pump. I am getting short on gear rotors (part you will need) but those are available new for a very nominal price, they are manufactured as a "pressed metal" item (not a casting or machined unit).

You will also need the gasket and the perimeter square cut "o" ring for the pump housing, and a set of the neoprene-coated steel washers that are under each pump retaining bolt head. All those parts come in "soft parts" kit which also includes a new front seal for the torque converter hub.

You will also need to locate and account for the n=2 broken tangs from the pump rotor.

The inner and outer gears of all 727 pumps are the same for all year models, but the pump reaction shaft support and the input shafts are not interchangeable between "early" and "late" pumps/transmissions. I have posted a sticky regarding the differences.

For an idea of cost for doing this repair...we charge $105.00 for doing this with the tranny on the bench, including all parts.

We can do an entire B&M-spec Scout II tranny build including conversion to a Jeep d300-style output shaft for $995 with the customer furnishing the conversion shaft. That includes all parts and labor along with a vent relocation job. We occasionally have the Jeep shafts, one of ours will run $125 for the part, extra.
 
Mike,

I read through all the posts concerning tf 727 to try to find the answer, but still have the question.
Here is what I got: 72 sii, replaced the Dana 30 with a 44 from a 76 and everything else is stock. Replaced ring gears to 4:10's

you talked about swaping in a 440 out of a motor home and buckling it up to the Dana 20. I am doing the same thing, but with a chrysler 400, with the 727 out of a 78 cordoba. After taking off the 18 1/2 inch 2wd tail shaft, will the 727 bolt up to the old IH 727 tailshaft that is married to the Dana 20. Output shaft issues?
 
After tearing down and removing the tailshaft from the chrysler unit you must install the IH tailshaft and housing in and on the chrysler tranny then the d20 will bolt right up. If you look back in the 727 section you will see diferent tailshaft pics and explanations for each.. M/m has included the spline counts and everything for us. There May be diferences in the real early like 66 or so year models hope this helps I know the reading is monumental lol but its worth it these guys know their shit lol
 
Ok, that was was I thought the process was going to be from everything I was reading. A hassel, but it will be worth it in the end. Thanks!
 
Installing the output side of a Scout II 727 into any chrysler (or amc) bellhousing is certainly doable without really any trouble. I've done several of these and have two more on the books for folks around here right now.

Assuming you have a true '78 cordoba 727 and it is not a "lock-up torque converter" version (iirc, the lock-up shitpiles were only used in the lighter weight chrysler corp. Econoboxes), then the swap is routine and should always be accompanied by a complete freshening of the wear and tear parts internally.

If you have read through this thread:

http://www.forums.IHPartsAmerica.co...t-407-tf727-variations-parts-differences.html

Then you see there are some things you must be aware of parts-wise regarding combining "early" and "late" transmission innards. In your case, in order to convert the cordoba transmission output segment to mate with a married d20, you must use the planetary set that is matched to the donor Scout II output shaft spline. There is a significant dimensional difference in the spline and if you don't correctly match the parts the planetary carrier and output shaft will fail. You could use the Scout II output shaft system from any 4x4 Scout II 727 as long as you use the entire planetary setup that is attached to the donor shaft as found (including the thrust washer found on the very nose of the donor planetary set". So the best way to do this is to have a complete sii donor unit in pieces, with all "pieces" coming from the same donor! That make sense??

In addition to the output shaft and it's mated planetary set, you will also need the intermediate/tailhousing for the Scout II along with the bull gear, bull gear distance piece/nut/washer, the "special" bearing behind the bull gear and the two seals.

The bull gear needed for the d20 is also used only on the Scout II 727 and it's pitch angle must match the intermediate gear in the d20. We've discussed that several times in other threads and posted part numbers to match up.

In our current inventory we do have at least two complete "used" conversion sets of Scout II output parts, one has a usable bearing, the other one needs a replacement bearing which we have custom manufactured exclusively for ihon and is not some rinky-dink crap chinee bearing with a piece of exhaust tubing shoved inside. These parts came from serviceable transmissions that I have converted to fullsize app units for a 2x4 or 4x4 which use a divorced transfer case.

So....this conversion is certainly fairly straightforward, the biggest issue is using a fully matched set of parts! This pic shows a converted very early (not pushbutton though) 727 that resides in major screwup's Scout traveler "mobinder" which is a real show piece under the hood and is twisted by a 383. It did get a paint job before it left the shop though!

The tranny in "pink" will be going into her third season of mud racing in the spring of 2011. That trans is a also a converted chrysler unit and has been through hell including dumping it's guts into the catch can on at least one occasion. But the pan has yet to come down for any work, though it is slated to receive a full manual valve body this winter since ihon is now on board as a sponsor for maranda and monte's ride, along with binder university. She's also gittin' a lightly warmed fresh 440 at the same time but the current trans is way more than beefy enuff to handle it:

http://www.forums.IHPartsAmerica.com/I-h-s-t-o/3426-2010-mud-drag-events.html

Monte's already started a thread for "pink 2.0" here so follow along:

http://www.forums.IHPartsAmerica.com/I-h-s-t-o/5285-pink-2-0-a.html
 

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Thanks. Yep, I can vouch for the 727, I pulled it myself out of the cordoba. I jumped on it when I saw that it was an original 400 big block with the 727. Most had the sb 360. It was the proverbial "little ole' lady" from brainard, ne who had it. Pulling the engine apart, I cannot believe how clean the engine is, but it is getting a complete rebuild anyway.

That is the plan, I am taking the sii tranny, the mopar tranny, the 20 and a copy of this thread and go to the shop in lincoln that does performance tranny work and discuss.

Now if I can just find "soft corinthian leather" for the Scout interior....
 
Have likely a simple shift cable install question. I'm replacing what appears to be a generic shift cable thrown on the 727 on my 72 Scout to get it moving but I believe is the cause for trouble engaging properly into gear. I ordered a new IH cable from IH only but it the threaded cable ends are slightly different. There is a directional arrow on the cable but I want to know if there is a correct direction to install the cable or can it be installed either end at either end. My gut tells me there is a proper direction, I.e. The arrow points toward the tranny or the arrow points towards the shift lever.
 
Its been awhile since I had one of those cables in my hands, but I seem to recall it being the same on either end. The fittings that are attached to either threaded end are different. The transmission end needs a clevis fitting and the gear selector end needs a pivot stud fitting, which is secured to the shifter with a cotter key. The cable is actually more of a flexible rod which slides back and forth inside a protective sheath. The shift linkage at the transmission will be all the way towards the rear of the vehicle in park. The exposed part of the cable should be connected to the shifter end so that when the shifter is moved rearward towards l1, the motion forces the exposed end of the cable back through the sheath, which in turn will force the shift linkage forward. Your key start should only engage in neutral and park when the adjustment is correct.
 
Doing a 1973 727 overhaul like the one in the excellent write up on this forum. You seem to be well versed in the 727. Long story short, while the valve body was apart, the table was hit by a fork lift! I reorganised all the parts and in the end I am stuck on 3 very similar springs, one is painted light blue and according to the write up on here it is probably for the throttle valve. The other two are almost the same lenghth but one is a little heavier/stiffer. One old timer told me the stiffer one goes on the converter control valve and the other is for the shuttle valve, a valve body I saw today had the stiffer one in the shuttle valve and the converter spring was blue!! Can you shed any light on this?
 
firetech said:
doing a 1973 727 overhaul like the one in the excellent write up on this forum. You seem to be well versed in the 727. Long story short, while the valve body was apart, the table was hit by a fork lift! I reorganised all the parts and in the end I am stuck on 3 very similar springs, one is painted light blue and according to the write up on here it is probably for the throttle valve. The other two are almost the same lenghth but one is a little heavier/stiffer. One old timer told me the stiffer one goes on the converter control valve and the other is for the shuttle valve, a valve body I saw today had the stiffer one in the shuttle valve and the converter spring was blue!! Can you shed any light on this?
Click to expand...

Sorry for not seeing this sooner. In case you're still dealing with this issue, I've provided a link to a thread which contains good color pics of the valve body disassembled and the valve springs in their correct orientation. Scroll down to post 37.

http://forums.IHPartsAmerica.com/transmission-tech/6521-727-rebuild-help-3.html
 
Ok here is my "stoopid" question for the day... I have my 727 out on the bench. Came out of a 75 sii... She was rebuilt and new seals and gaskets all around. My question before I put it back in (by myself as my "buddy" who was going to help went fishing) I have 2 questions... First the torque converter seems sloppy to me but others say it's fine... How much slop should there be? And second should I be able to turn the front splines by hand? Thanks for any answers.
 
The most important, critical, vital, crucial, monumental thing about installing the torque converter, is making sure the alignment slots are properly engaged with the tabs on the pump drive gears, and making double damn sure that the converter is fully seated in the case before you attempt snugging the case to the engine. When you have it in all the way, there will be very little finger space between the back of the converter and the bell shape of the case. Another way to tell is by holding a straight edge across the front machined surface of the case. The converter should be inside the straight edge. Why is converter seating so important? Because you'll either destroy the case while snugging the bolts down...major bummer, or you'll shear the alignment tabs clean off the pump gears the first time you crank the starter...medium bummer. Replacement drive gears are available from several online vendors and are not that big of a deal to replace, but still, you're better off not breaking them. As easy as it is to get this wrong, its damn near as easy to get it right. You just need to mind your p's and q's and take your time. Check yourself before you wreck yourself.

Yes, the rotating assembly should rotate clockwise by hand when the selector is not in park. The one-way clutch will only allow rotation in one direction, hence the name.
 
Ok so a few more questions I hope you don't mind sharing experience and knowledge about stuff I don't know yet (if it was manual trans no prob but still un-sure about how an auto does what it does... But trying to learn)

I had to pull my trans because I was away working and didn't get the chance to put anti-freeze in non running Scout. Popped the back and front plugs. Pulled out trans to fix freeze plugs and figured I'd do the tail shaft gasket as it leaks like crazy woman, and did seals... Felt like sea-world circa 92, get rid of bad seals for new ones.

So pulled out trans and marked the fly wheel and tc so they go back the same. Did the work. And went to put it back in. I put the tc on the shaft and turned it till it dropped and rotated more and it dropped again. Looks to be even with the bell housing.

I through it on jacks and crap and got it stabbed in there. Got bolts going and could finger tight until about an 1 1/4 gap between motor and trans... Break out wrenches time... Tightened it up to 1/2 inch gap (all around even-ish) then started reading (re-reading these posts and now worried about it being lined up right) with a 1/2 inch gap I can turn motor with breaker bar, and turn tc with screw driver in the slots of nut holes... Final line up of tc - flywheel bolts (off by 1/8 inch clock wise) if I have less of a gap I cant turn shit for shine-ola... Is this normal??? Or should I still be able to turn it and I don't have it right? It bolted easy (as easy as you'd expect for limited work space) and no "snap, crackle or pops" as it bolted up... So just worried and wondering before I put exhaust and all back, and then have to tear it apart again. When they are bolted together can you turn them? How do you know the tc is aligned with the trans? Am I stressing over nothing? Any advice would be great...

Thanks
brando:mad2:
 
Hail no I don't mind helping out where I can. That's a big part of why this forum exists. Purpose one is to support sales through IHPA and purpose two is to help folks keep these piles rollin' down the road. When the two notions cross paths its a beautiful thing. And these aren't stupid questions either. What would be stupid is just plowing ahead without asking any questions on something like this when you aren't sure what you're doing.

Okay, so when the tc is fully seated, and the trans is all snugged up to the engine, it should be necessary to slide the tc forward a miniscule amount to contact the flexplate so the small bolts can be run in. If the flexplate is pressing against the tc preventing you from moving it rearward so that it will spin freely by hand...stop! The tc isn't seated properly. The tc should be able to turn freely by hand when no converter bolts are in place. If it does, carry on. When the tc is fastened securely to the flexplate you should be able to turn the engine and all over by hand with the safe method of your choice. If you can't do that...stop! Do not bump the engine over with the starter if you can't first budge it by hand. You're going to have to rotate the thing all the way around to get all four bolts properly torqued. Safest way to do it is by hand anyway, although I've cheated carefully with a handheld remote starter button before (have main coil wire disconnected to prevent accidental startup). If you try that without first making sure it will rotate by hand, you'll bust the pump gear. Stater motor is pretty strong. Hopefully this is all clear enough. If there's any doubt in your mind whatsoever, back the assembly out and down to where you can manhandle the tc again and redo your tc stab. Yeah, its extra work, but better safe than sorry. You didn't know then what you know now when you stabbed it before. I just want to be perfectly clear that I am not advising you to haul off and light the fires. I've given you the parameters and things to look for, but you'll have to make the call on whether to come ahead or skin 'er back a few feet for a new purchase on the sumbitch...copy?
 
Thank you scoutboy74... I wasn't sure so haven't done anything on that yet... Been finishing the re-wire for the new dash and stereo stuff... So I'll re-drop it, my question is how to be sure its aligned up right??? Any tricks? And thank you!!! If ever in oregon well hit a trail and bbq...
 
I is an oreganonion born and bred. Up until late last year, I was just down the road from you in sweatsford, but I had to relocate north to my old stomping grounds near canyonville.

When you pull the tc out all the way, you'll notice a notch cut out on either side of the center tube that slides over the trans input shaft. If you shine a light up inside the gap between the input shaft and the reaction shaft, you'll see two tabs sticking up. You want to align the slots on the tc so that they line up with those pump notches. When the tc drops all the way in fully seated, it is possible to pinch your pudgy fingers between it and the case if you have them slid back in there too far. That's how little space there is between the tc and the case when fully seated. As I alluded to before, the tc will actually be able to slide back and forth a small amount when the trans case is snugged to the back of the block. It can't possibly slide too far forward at that point that the tabs will lose contact with the slots. They'll stay engaged. You can slide it back a smidge so that it can be spun free and easy, get the holes between it and the flexplate all lined up and then slide it forward up against the fp and run your little bolts in. Whole assembly should now rotate as one. That is, provided you didn't hook up the prop shaft first. Don't do that. Get your trans all squared away first. Then hook up the prop shaft. Clear as mud?
 
Orygan boy huh??? Wasn't born here, but did have the years that make you who you are up here... Big city guy (la and ny) but don't hate me for that... Do it for work, but a ducks fan to heart as my high school was kelley green and gold... And did a sem at uofo before going to uofk... Go wild cats... So gonna drop it out tomorrow, again... And will hit you back for more info... Can you (if you don;t mind) pm me with a number for any "o' shit what now moments... Send you a nice bottle of wine... Or case of rogue beer, you chose... Thanks man and next time in so o let me know... Bbq... Got killer elk back strap...
 
Nah, I don't hate a person for wanting to leave the big city behind in favor of the country. Just so long as you aren't the type of transplant who feels compelled to mold their calm, new surroundings into some facsimile of what they just escaped from, but on a smaller scale. My avatar kinda says it all. Hack off a chunk of south'n orygone, hack off a chunk of norcal, slap 'em together to form the state of jefferson. The progressive scrus in sukremento, hell-a, stalem, and putzland can keep doing what they've been doing. I like visiting those places, but I'm not interested in their all-seeing, all-knowing master plan.

Got your dexmerc atf ready to go? There, I thankfully took the discussion from irrelevant philosophical/political bullshizz back to relevant tech talk. Bam! We're right back on track. But now I must derail it again to discuss a topic of even greater importance...tender, juicy, mouth-watering wapiti flesh warshed down with micro-suds. That's livin' right there. Its been a half dozen years since I last gave a bull dirt nap, but I hunt with a large party and we always share in the community spoils at the end of every season. I appreciate your offer of hospitality. I haven't visited the rv in several months, but I owe a friend in meddy some hands-on assistance with his misbehaving 727 soon. I'll try to remember to give you a shout when that day comes. Check your pm basket.
 
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