ENGINE NOISE

Not only tranny issues...remember how fookedover that so-called "392" motor was with all the "custom" shit? Remember that funkeeazz chrome "breather" stuck in the valley pan like sum dam chryfordrolet??

Wail guess what...we got us a bigazz vacuum leak goin' on cause there weren't no dam pcv system plumbed in atall!!! Sumbitch ran dam guud at 2krpm but don't idle wirf shit like that!

Ben done got that leetle detale handled though, then the tranny decided to not pump. So a pump rotor is in the mail now, we'll see how handi ben is with 727 front pump poppin' next.
 
Oh I rekamembur all that shit. If sum lazee boanz would git offn hiz fat azz an produce a dam rebuild video, this'd be a piece of cake.
 
Wellp, here's the result of trying to do an engine swap in one day by yourself. One careless moment and I had to drop the transmission which isn't that bad, but still a pain in the a$$.
Hopefully I'll get the pump that mayben sent out tomorrow and have this thing driving again. I'm so anxious to see how this motor moves my Scout as compared to my busted one.
 

Attachments

  • 35719_451757330983_740515983_5886796_670341_n.jpg
    35719_451757330983_740515983_5886796_670341_n.jpg
    37.9 KB · Views: 271
I feel much better now ben! You have accounted for the pump rotor tangs! You should see your rotor tomorrow, I didn't send it priority as I'd already missed the cutoff for that up here.

The pump rotors are pressed metal, extremely strong for their intended use but very fragile when placed in a shear.

Live and learn...I get more calls and emails about this same issue than any other one item related to a slushbox!

The tranny I have down now on the surgery table belongs to mikee roth, he received it inna trade from monte, who received it inna trade from another yokel who shall remain nameless. The yokel rammed and crammed the tranny doing an install, tried to pull the tranny into place with the bellhousing bolts and the same thing happened. Good thing it did though, that trans would have never operated at all, it was one pos inside!

So I sent you the pump rotor I had picked out for mikee, guess I'll have to bust down another junker to git mikee a rotor, he won't appreciate gittin' a built tranny back that won't pump!

Here's a shot of what we be talkin'.
 

Attachments

  • 727 pump assembly.jpg
    727 pump assembly.jpg
    88.5 KB · Views: 291
Last edited:
Good to know I'm not the only one. It's just damn embarrassing considering I just put this transmission in last fall and I spent almost an hour just making sure those tangs were lined up and that the t.c. Was mounted perfectly... Like I said, just too big of a hurry I guess.
 
In case you're wondering what the problem is, here's a picture of the rotor I pulled out... Compare it to the picture that mm just posted and weep with me.
So the rotor just came in the mail and it's all back together but I'm having a helluva time getting the tc on all the way. It's making me feel a bit better.
One thing has crossed my mind several times and before I put this thing back in I would like to know what you think about the little tiny bits of metal floating around in my transmission now... Should I run it and then change the filter right away? Should I break down the tranny more and get it as clean as I can? I'd rather deal with making sure it's bulletproof now than getting 10 k on my new transmission and then having it fail! Or are the little bits of metal ok and are just gonna be filtered out?
Whatcha think?
 

Attachments

  • 36393_451976560983_740515983_5891071_18786_n.jpg
    36393_451976560983_740515983_5891071_18786_n.jpg
    23.7 KB · Views: 344
Ben and I discussed his findings by phone, in essence, once he cleaned out the oil pump cavity and removed some tiny metal chips, the whole pump assembly rotated just fine.

It' always possible that some pump rotor debris made it's way through the system, but will be handled through "drop-out" in the pan and filter. The tranny should be serviced once the fresh motor is broken in and the bands re-adjusted, then the rig should be a dd!
 
Wellp, it's in, it runs, and it moves!
I must say right now I'm not too impressed with the power but I haven't tweaked on anything as far as timing/carb adjustment. I'm zapped and am done for the day. Time for a shower, some dinner and a beer.
 
Ok guys, I'm very very happy with how the engine is doing. After three hours of getting rid of an exhaust leak on the pass side drop the engine sounds great and responds well. I still have a small backfire once in a while but the timing seems solid and it idles smoothly and accelerates/ decelerates without hesitation. But on the road it's still a dog. I mean a real dog. I can't tell any discernible difference in power from this newly rebuilt engine from my busted 345. Now I'm wondering if the transmission has always been out of wack. I had a guy rebuild it last summer and I put it all together. I just always figured that if a tranny moves a rig down the road then it's not busted. Kinda like it either works or it doesn't work. After reading all through the transmission sections in my manual it sounds like I could be having any number of problems with it! It just never occured to me that the transmission May not be transferring the power from the engine to the wheels correctly. I'm pretty bumbed because I just spent an extra day dropping and another day re-installing that tranny. I May need to start another thread in the transmission section to solve the next problem. For now however, the engine build was a success and I'm happy with it. We'll see what happens with the tranny as time goes on.
 
Advice from an old fooker who knows just what ya be talkin'...back off and give it a rest!

You've done a really remarkable job in getting to where ya and the ride are right now. Take a break and just drive it while monitoring engine temp closely. Take care of handling any small details, wiring issues, leaks, etc. It runs now, ya can drive it,...worry about any performance issues after ya accumulate some miles.

The most successful part of this deal so far...no lifter noise or valve train rattle??? That is a major accomplishment!

Also...I assume ya re-set the kickdown (front) band on the trans after re-installing the pump??? Remember I had ya lock it down so the tranny guts wouldn't move out of position? If the band is still "tight", I can't believe it actually untracks!! Band adjustment guapo is here, just verify the kickdown band adjustment for now...then when ya drop the pan to service the tranny ya can do the low/reverse band inside:

http://www.forums.IHPartsAmerica.com/transmission-tech/1315-t407-tf-727-band-adjustment.html
 
Nope, no lifter rattle or any of that... But my oil pump decided to shut down on me now too! So this thing is gonna be another weekend in coming. I just read through all of your threads regarding tf guapo and the tf band adjustment and I will go through those procedures tomorrow. It's kind of grumping me out how much fluid I'm putting through this tranny just to dump out again! As far as when I pulled that oil pump I completely forgot what you said about tightening the band down to hold the guts in place... Shame on me... I'm just wondering what might be going on because I didn't do that?? As far as the engine, I now have an exhaust leak on the drivers side, which is weird because it seems intermittent... And the engine/tranny/tc is making a heavy clunk when at idle. Much more adjustment needs to be made I believe. Also I seem to have quite a bit of black smoke on start up, so I'm going to need to investigate that as well. I'm going to go ahead and put my delco dizzy on this engine since I know it works well and I'm going to replace my cheap azz plug wires with some good ones to make sure I'm getting enough fire in the holes. I have my 35's set at an .05 gap (thinking I had a pertronix ignition) and I did not reset them for the prestolite setup... That May be a reason that my engine is still rough... Anyhoot, thanks again. Let me know what you think about that oil pump deal.
Everyone else chime in if you have any advice... It's true that I'm now a maybenite, but I still listen to gospel advice from others.
 
So my new deep pan came in today and I just dropped my old one... Kinda scary what's in there. The picture is not super clear but there are a lot of shavings. I'm pretty worried that running my engine at 2000 rpm for 20-30 minutes with a busted oil pump May have ruined the bands. I'm waiting on a torque wrench to come in tomorrow but just hand tight the kickdown band went in about 2-1/2 to 3 turns... Tell me what you guys think. If this goes much further then maybe I'll start a new thread titled "what happens when you eff up your trans oil pump during an engine break in." :incazzato:
 

Attachments

  • IMAG0021.jpg
    IMAG0021.jpg
    101.7 KB · Views: 309
That guapo in the trans pan is not a real problem ben. I've seen far, far worse on units badly abused and neglected. What you see there is kinda "normal" actually. The filter did it's job! Just change it out for a new one.

To redneck the front band adjustment...tighten it with a 4" ratchet about as tight as ya can get it with one wrist (it's a bitch to access anyway). Then back the screw out exactly three turns and lock it down.

When ya did the cam/lifter break-in, if the trans was in park, then oil did not actually circulate in the trans to any extent, the hydraulic system "charges" only when in gear or in neutral unless a shift kit has been installed previously.

I'm a bit confused...has the engine oil pump failed??? That is near impossible unless something jammed the gear and twisted the shaft.

With any of the common electronic distributor conversion, ya should run only a plug gap of no more than 0.035". With a capacitive discharge box added (msd or mallory), the plug gap should be no more than 0.045" or it's possible for a conventional plug side electrode to actually break off and the cylinder eat it. What you have installed right now will not fire a plug gap of over 0.035" on a regular basis under constant load, so you end up with random misfire above approximately 1500rpm but it's "scatter firing" and ya May not actually feel/hear that unless ya got the system onna scope. It's actually kinda like hitting the governor onna governed engine system like your excavator.

The prestolite electronic distributor and the delco with points do not control how much voltage/spark energy is needed/produced to ionize the plug gap, the coil does. And in actuality, that pertronix coil is hardly any "hotter" than a stock coil, don't believe the marketing bullshit they spin. And any "inductive" system only produces the exact amount of spark energy (measured in millijoules) that the plug needs each time the piston comes up on compression stroke, so a "hot coil" is really redundant.

The only way to achieve a constant high "spark energy" across the plug gap is to use a cd system that controls the coil with a primary input to the companion coil of a nominal 450vdc instead of only b+!
 
Ok sounds great. I'll redneck it right now and maybe have it going tonight. Ya, I don't know what's up with the engine oil pump but I was only getting about 6 psi. Could be my gauge is bad too. Either way there aint no way in hail I'm gonna run it again until after I've taken out that pump and put in one that I know works fine. I'm almost done dropping the pan but one of the phillips heads busted off on me and I'm gonna have to do some fancy file work to get it out... It makes me wish I had a dremmel tool... Anyhoot, I'll also regap everything to .035 and shore as hell hope that all of my plugs come out with electrodes in tact. It would suck if one of my cylinder walls was axed by an electrode and I only have 7 miles on the new engine! :cryin:
 
Ok, well I pulled the oil pump and replaced it with the one from my 345 which was giving good pressure. I also shimmed it according to your instructions and roberts math with an extra .089 shim gives me a boost of about 10 psi. I would have done only .05 or so except that my spring was slightly collapsed at 2.18 inches. Anyways, I adjusted the bands and put on a new extra capacity trans pan. I have new guages for water, oil and volts that I'm gonna jimmyrig into place until I rebuild my dash. I also went through my prestolite dizzy and rebuilt/lubed it with my new pertronix unit. I figure whatthehell I May as well. I picked up some street fire plug wires and am going to make those up today. They were about twice the price of the generic accell wires but they are way sturdier and I'm hoping that I'll quit pulling the ends of the wires off every time I remove them from my plugs. Anyways, after all of this tune up stuff hopefully this thing will be running right!
 
Holy cow! It runs great! So, as a classic example of "one thing leads to another" and IHOnly's "quadruple factor" (where you take the reasonable dollar amount for a fix and quadruple it). So, I figured it would take about a grand to get this thing really road worthy. I should have figured four grand.
Long story short, this thing has more power than my old engine, and so I gunned it going up a small hill and what happens??? Bye bye drivers side rear axle. Sheared it clean. Amazingly I caught this on film. So here's some pictures, and I will post a link on youtube when I have a minute. I was gonna tackle the steering next but I guess I'll be doing axles first. Anyone have a good set of Scout II Dana 44's?
I don't know if you can tell or not, but the axle was already cracked and was only holding on by about 1/4 of it's original thickness.
Either way I guess it'll be one more weekend before this things going good. On to the classifieds to find a set of axles. Now that I get to pick, what's the recommended gear ratio for a 304 w/ tf727 running 34-35's?
Here's the youtube link.
The noise is wind I think, the engine sounds pretty good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8glyv1itqcu

Oh yeah, and now I get to learn how to do body work.
 

Attachments

  • 002.jpg
    002.jpg
    62.2 KB · Views: 281
  • 017.jpg
    017.jpg
    59.9 KB · Views: 273
  • 020.jpg
    020.jpg
    71.6 KB · Views: 265
Last edited:
The tag on the axle say's
46-13
3.54
I'm assuming 3.45 is the gear ratio? If so I guess that's what I need to find so that I match my front. Maybe I should just say screw it and do my SOA right now? I dunno. I can't afford new tires and an SOA would look pretty awesome with my 31's that I'm running now :rolleyes5:
 
benjamin7 said:
the tag on the axle say's
46-13
3.54
I'm assuming 3.45 is the gear ratio? If so I guess that's what I need to find so that I match my front. Maybe I should just say screw it and do my SOA right now? I dunno. I can't afford new tires and an SOA would look pretty awesome with my 31's that I'm running now :rolleyes5:
Click to expand...

Trickledown won't end for at least another year ben! You have just got yore feet wet so far, but I admit you have had a harder time than most!

My opinion...that truck had an encounter sliding sideways with a curb at some point in the past! Prolly tore hell out of a wheel/tire and was replaced but they did not replace the axle shaft itself. That fresh motor didn't tweek that axle, it was already scruud! Or...it's possible axle bearing set was fried in the past and grossly overheated, that can damage the axle itself, they May have just pressed on a replacement bearing/seal.

Anyway...a 3.54 gear ratio (per your axle tag) is certainly a good one for all around use with the tires ya describe. Really all ya need is a replacement axle shaft which several folks around the forum have in volume...and Jeff has at the shop both in high end new stuff and prolly some good used also. And I bet the fwbeezs over in mexturd have some too.
 
You're saying 3.54 is a good gear ratio for 33-35" tires? That would be great if I don't have to do any gear changing! I already talked to Darren at ihonlynorth and he priced me up a set with all the bells and whistles... I just can't afford that much right now but I'm definitely inclined to find some way to do it, just to give them my support. Anyone have an axle you're looking to get rid of??? I'll post a quick thread in the wanted section.
Thanks
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top