Before and After of My Scout 80 CS

This is a great thread, and a great looking truck Robert!

I just want to mention that I have the same suspension w/ conn ferr shackles (same length) on my 800 v8, and there are different problems. Bump steer is not a problem, because the v8 has the steering box on the other side of the frame, and the drag link angle is less. However, you need to move the rear axle foward 1" or it will rub. The v8s also have to shim the front. I didn't shim the rear, and haven't had any problems. It has a little over 20k miles on the suspension with no problems and mine actually rides better than the original suspension did.

Just wanted to mention this in case someone was working with a v8 800.
 
mitch neal said:
I just want to mention that I have the same suspension w/ conn ferr shackles (same length) on my 800 v8, and there are different problems. However, you need to move the rear axle foward 1" or it will rub.
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Thanks mitch,

I have seen many 800's that have the rear axle set rear of the quarter panel opening. Funky look imo. Maybe this is what you are refering to.

My rear set up fine so I don't believe the 80 suffers from any of those problems.
 
You are right, they moved the rear axle back 1" on the v8s/i6s, with the lift and tires that I am using, I had to get that 1" of clearance back. It is only a problem with the v8 800s and i6 800s. 4cyl 800s don't have the problem either.
 
mitch neal said:
you are right, they moved the rear axle back 1" on the v8s/i6s, with the lift and tires that I am using, I had to get that 1" of clearance back. It is only a problem with the v8 800s and i6 800s. 4cyl 800s don't have the problem either.
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Actually they moved the body forward for engine compartment clearance, not the axle rearward. If I hadn't cut up those two bare frames I could have shown how the body mounts are in different spots.
 
stu simpson said:
actually they moved the body forward for engine compartment clearance, not the axle rearward. If I hadn't cut up those two bare frames I could have shown how the body mounts are in different spots.
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Interesting that the fa is still centered in its respective fender well but the ra is not.
 
Robert, I forgot to ask, how do you like the mr. Scout springs? I heard they are very stiff. (I assume I can ask this since afaik ihon doesn't offer s80 lift springs.)
 
mastiff said:
Robert, I forgot to ask, how do you like the mr. Scout springs? I heard they are very stiff. (I assume I can ask this since afaik ihon doesn't offer s80 lift springs.)
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I suppose it is all relative. I had the super heavy rear springs that came with the d44 and they were stupidly stiff. The ms spring is way better. Also adding the bilsteins Jeff got for me really helped limit the bounciness.

Not a lot of options with the 80 setup.. Short and narrow spring, limits the design to a thicker leaf thus a higher rate and somewhat stiffer ride. Of course if you didn't care to ever put and weight in it you can build a spring pack with thinner leafs and lower rate for a softer ride.
 
Robert kenney said:
I suppose it is all relative. I had the super heavy rear springs that came with the d44 and they were stupidly stiff. The ms spring is way better. Also adding the bilsteins Jeff got for me really helped limit the bounciness.

Not a lot of options with the 80 setup.. Short and narrow spring, limits the design to a thicker leaf thus a higher rate and somewhat stiffer ride. Of course if you didn't care to ever put and weight in it you can build a spring pack with thinner leafs and lower rate for a softer ride.
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A guy on another forum is claiming that the mr Scout springs are just Skyjacker cj5 springs. Anyone know if this is the case? No need to pay an unnecessary markup.

I kind of doubt the claim because most things I've read about using Jeep springs on a Scout have not been good. Like that they sag in short order. What makes a Scout so much heavier than a Jeep anyway?
 
mastiff said:
a guy on another forum is claiming that the mr Scout springs are just Skyjacker cj5 springs. Anyone know if this is the case? No need to pay an unnecessary markup.

I kind of doubt the claim because most things I've read about using Jeep springs on a Scout have not been good. Like that they sag in short order. What makes a Scout so much heavier than a Jeep anyway?
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The "other forum" dude is full of crap.

Mike fiock/mr. Scout is a personal and professional friend of ours.

He's had his lift springs custom fabricated for many years by a company that is totally off the radar. But in fact...that company manufactures many spring sets for many vehicles that are marketed under many brand names.

Mike worked out the arch/length and spring rate for the s80 apps many years ago, dates back to the late 60's.

Everything is "heavier" regarding any ihc-produced product as compared to any similar vehicle from some other oem. Ihc products were intended for the commercial/agricultural/vocational market where long-term durability was a primary design criteria.
 
Mr Scout is a fine business and I won't pass judgment on him based on some unsubstantiated statement on an anonymous form. Ask the guy/gal to put up proof or he/she is fos. I seriously doubt he repackages sj stuff and has to play the double Mark up game.

The springs are exactly correct to fit a Scout 80 and they have not sagged one bit like the Jeep are rumored to. Some times you have to take the risk and just follow your instinct.
 
Thanks for the replies. You confirmed what I suspected. I'm close to pulling the trigger on something lift wise. Does ihon have the appropriate shackles to go with mr. Scout springs? I don't really want much additional lift, just something a little more heavy duty than the home made junk I'm using, and something appropriate to utilize the range of the springs. I'd need some u bolts too... And shims, and shocks... :crazy:
 
The various length CPT shackles we have in the store will work for the s80 just fine. You simply cut down the center spacer to proper width after installing the springs using either shims or no shims between the inner bushing support and the side of the shackles depending upon which bushing set is used. The shims are simple grade 8 washers. Some bushing sets come with the shims, some don't depends upon the supplier's design.

After each shackle/spring is installed and the nut firmed up, then cut the spacer to fit and install between the plates with the supplied hardware.

This pic shows what I'm talking about, this is a 5" CPT shackle used with polyurethane spring bushings. All installed with silicone grease. The springs are oem.

This setup also includes the installation of steel, CPT 6* alignment wedges in the front axle/spring interface (oem spring-under), locked in place with both the u-bolts and the spring center pin.
 

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I have written this already but in case it was missed. I have the mr-s springs and about 3/4 of shackle lift (1.5" longer shackle). The springs alone were fine from a drivability stand point. After adding the shackle I did begin to experience annoying bump steer. You have good timing to be asking about the lift because I am in the middle of flipping the tie rod ends to the top of the yolk and building a new drag link and tie rod assembly. In the machining and painting phase now. Tomorrow I will reassemble the axle. Then reverify kingpin bearing preload is correct 13-26ftlb from one of the kp cap bolts.


The tie rod flip will correct the drag link angle about 2 1/2 inches which should eliminate the bump steer. I will also lengthen the drag link to as far to the passengers side as possible to also decrease the angle.

I do need to have Jeff send me a knuckle seal kit which I forgot to do last week. Knuckle grease is spec-ed as #0 or #00 lube and not bearing grease or gear oil. It's viscosity is akin to yellow mustard, semi flow-able.

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Nice. You going to mass produce those parts for sale? :icon_wink:

I've read that a steering stabilizer is helpful with bumpsteer. What do you think?

You said you got shackles 1.5" longer than stock. The stock ones are 3"? So 4.5" shackles? I see ihon has them in 1" increments. I'm considering the 4" ones, so with mr. Scout springs I'd be at an even 3" of lift.

I'm assuming the 2.5" stated for mr. Scout springs is relative to stock springs in a like new state, not sagging like almost all 45 year old springs must be? Just wondering whether it'll be more than 2.5" relative to where I am now...
 
Mass production???? I have no idea. The part that is not really sale-able is the machine work. A kit would have to have that. Most swap in d44's and use a high steer kit. I am afraid I am the fringe element that would screw around with the d27. I suppose there might be other purists out there but I have not found many yet.

Bump steer is a function of the drag link geometry and unless the geometry is corrected a damper only takes a tad of the effect away but transmits the load to the steering gear. The problem is still there so it depends how much crap you are willing to deal with when you drive down the road. I am not very prone to put up with a vehicle that won't behave so I am fixing it to my liking.

2 inch I don't remember what the stock shackle bolt cl was so I could not tell you which to buy. You should measure yours with a tape and see where your base line is. 1 inch of lift from the shackle will be no worse than the 3/4 I have. You will still have roughly the same road manners as I do.
 
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I am afraid I am the fringe element that would screw around with the d27. I suppose there might be other purists out there but I have not found many yet.
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I'm a purist at heart. It's great to see others improve stock setups with some skillful fine tuning such as you've been posting. For the most part for what it was intended for, stock was fine; and it's lasted more years than many of today's owners are old.
 
Robert kenney said:
the angle shims need to be specific to the narrow s80 1 3/4" wide spring. The sii are to wide will not work. You could narrow those or add notches to clear the u-bolts.

Best to ask if Jeff has narrow ones.
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You can use the sii shims, but you need to drill them for the u-bolts to go through them. Accually the drilled shim will never "spit" out or loosen up.......a trick the I got from michael m!
 
Here's the drilled CPT 6* wedges for Scout II spring width I use on the Scout 80 apps. These ain't goin' nowhere.
 

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Forgot I had this pic. These are the cast zinc wedges that some po had installed in our s80 many years ago.

It also had a hydraulic steering damper installed which is a total pos and only a bandaid as Robert described. It got shitcanned immediately. Same for the one on our recently acquired t'all, what a joke, those dam thangs are dangerous! If anyone thinks they are gonna fix steering/suspension with a damper bandaid, then they should not be driving down the same road I travel on!
 

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michael mayben said:
It also had a hydraulic steering damper installed which is a total pos and only a bandaid as Robert described. It got shitcanned immediately. Same for the one on our recently acquired t'all, what a joke, those dam thangs are dangerous! If anyone thinks they are gonna fix steering/suspension with a damper bandaid, then they should not be driving down the same road I travel on!
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They May be a bandaid for geometry issues, but how are they dangerous? My k5 had a stabilizer on it from the factory. Don't they just add some dampening to prevent all the jarring from the road from going directly to the steering system? It seems reasonable to me. People did clearly get carried away putting bunches of them on for cosmetic reasons back in the 90's. I'll admit I had side by side duals on my k5 for a while just because I thought it looked cool (I was young).
 
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