• To ALL forum users - As of late I have been getting quite a few private messages with questions about build ups here on the forum, or tech questions about your personal project. While I appreciate the interest, sending me a private message about these topics distracts from, and undermines the purpose of having a forum here. During the day I wear many hats as a small business owner-operator and I work tirelessly to provide the absolute best service possible to you, our valued customer. When I created this forum I rounded up some of the best minds I knew so that any tech question you might have could be asked and answered by either myself or one of my highly experienced moderators, this way the next time this same question is asked the answer can be easily found and utilized by the next IH enthusiast having the same question. This allows me the freedom to run the day to day operations of the business and minimize the impact to shipments and shop activities that these distractions can cause. It is of the up most importance for me to complete the daily tasks in order to best take care of you our customer, all the while providing you a forum to get the level advice and input you have come to expect and deserve from the premier IH shop in the country.

    So with that I ask that anyone with a question about one of our build ups or a general tech question to please use the forum as it was intended. I am absolutely available by telephone to answer your questions as well but at times may direct you back to our website to better field your question or questions. Most other private messages I will be glad to answer for you.

    Thank you for your understanding.

    Jeff Ismail
    Owner/Operator

Before and After of My Scout 80 CS

Mastiff

Member
Hey Robert, not sure if you're still monitoring the thread but I was wondering if you had to modify anything steering-wise to tolerate the lift? I think you said new shackles are required? Why is that?

There was a thread a while back where you and michael dispensed some advice regarding shackles and shims, but I can't seem to find it.

Inspiring rig by the way. I keep coming back to see it as a great example of a moderate build. I'm in tucson now, so having a viable off road machine is important, but I still want it to look right, not like a mini monster truck. My initial plan was to order some 2" or so springs from alcan and just leave it at that since I'm pretty sure I wouldn't get into too much trouble with steering and other stuff, but then I bet that would barely get me to 31" tires...
 

71mtnscout

Member
Hey Robert thats almost exactly what I want my 64 80 that I'm picking up next month to sit! Do you know what springs are on it? What size tires are you running? Mine will have the "pretty" part down, but doesnt have the stance.

 

Robert Kenney

Super Moderator
hey Robert, not sure if you're still monitoring the thread but I was wondering if you had to modify anything steering-wise to tolerate the lift? I think you said new shackles are required? Why is that?

There was a thread a while back where you and michael dispensed some advice regarding shackles and shims, but I can't seem to find it.

Inspiring rig by the way. I keep coming back to see it as a great example of a moderate build. I'm in tucson now, so having a viable off road machine is important, but I still want it to look right, not like a mini monster truck. My initial plan was to order some 2" or so springs from alcan and just leave it at that since I'm pretty sure I wouldn't get into too much trouble with steering and other stuff, but then I bet that would barely get me to 31" tires...
Thanks for the kind words.

Here is a picture of my Scout before the resto and 3/4 lift the shackles gave me.. It has only mr Scout 2 1/2 inch lift springs and shocks on it.

Look at the drag link. See the upward angle? It is worse now after the extra lift the shackles gave me and has some annoying bump steer now. Stock height the drag link is almost parallel to the tie rod and no bump steer. The bump steer also beats the hell out of the steering box.

That was my limitation and prompted me to do a flip of the tie rod to the top of the knuckles arm.. Requires a 7.5 degree taper reamer ($$$) to create the tie rod end taper from the top. Then flip the toe rod to the top. I have not done it yet but have done all of the research to do it soon..

Shackles are going to be required to lift much beyond 2-3 inches. To arch the spring more at the existing leaf length the shackel would be close to flipping over center jaming it against the frame rail. So to stop that the main leaf needs to get longer. That can cause the range of motion at the shackle end to exceed the shackle thus potentialy bending the spring. Along with the spring and it's extended range of motion the shackle needs to be extended to accept the increased range.

My combination gave me the lift I wanted and left the shackle angle at a happy place. It articulates well all things considered and only slightly rubs when making u turns..

I know this is boring but it needed to be explained.. :icon_rotate:
 

Attachments

Korllach

Member
71mtnscout said:
hey Robert thats almost exactly what I want my 64 80 that I'm picking up next month to sit! Do you know what springs are on it? What size tires are you running? Mine will have the "pretty" part down, but doesnt have the stance
This question. Sorry mastiff, I should have clarified.
 

71mtnscout

Member
all of your questions are answered a few times in the posts right above yours.
Dont know how I missed it..................I must be gettin old!:yikes:

did ihon ever get the lift springs off the ground that you talked about earlier in the thread? I dont see them on the website.
 

Mastiff

Member
So it sounds like you are getting away with 3+ inches of total lift, though with an annoying amount of bumpsteer, if I understand right. Isn't it possible to get a draglink with a bend in it to help?

Regarding shackles, if lift springs are custom made for the application, can't they be made longer so the shackle doesn't need to take up any extra length (can be in a good spot with vehicle level on flat ground)?

Did you use any shims to help with pinion angles?

Thanks for the help.
 

Robert Kenney

Super Moderator
So it sounds like you are getting away with 3+ inches of total lift, though with an annoying amount of bumpsteer, if I understand right. Isn't it possible to get a draglink with a bend in it to help?
Wha you are discribing is a droped drag link (shaped like a z) they do npthing to lessen bumpsteer. It is the angle of a plane through the box end of the drag link and the tierod end not the shape of the drag link.. Seems like it would help but if you lay it out it becomes clear.

Regarding shackles, if lift springs are custom made for the application, can't they be made longer so the shackle doesn't need to take up any extra length (can be in a good spot with vehicle level on flat ground)?

Did you use any shims to help with pinion angles?

Thanks for the help.
How much longer the springs are made you May get away with the stock shackles but the longer spring has a longer range of motion and to flex fully will require a longer shackle. I May go with a longer/taller spring eventually and am ready with my longer shackle.

Yes caster/pinion angle must be compensated for by using angle shims.. I used 3 in the front :cornut: and 4 1/2 degree in the rear.
 
Last edited:

MITCH NEAL

New member
This is a great thread, and a great looking truck Robert!

I just want to mention that I have the same suspension w/ conn ferr shackles (same length) on my 800 v8, and there are different problems. Bump steer is not a problem, because the v8 has the steering box on the other side of the frame, and the drag link angle is less. However, you need to move the rear axle foward 1" or it will rub. The v8s also have to shim the front. I didn't shim the rear, and haven't had any problems. It has a little over 20k miles on the suspension with no problems and mine actually rides better than the original suspension did.

Just wanted to mention this in case someone was working with a v8 800.
 

Robert Kenney

Super Moderator
I just want to mention that I have the same suspension w/ conn ferr shackles (same length) on my 800 v8, and there are different problems. However, you need to move the rear axle foward 1" or it will rub.
Thanks mitch,

I have seen many 800's that have the rear axle set rear of the quarter panel opening. Funky look imo. Maybe this is what you are refering to.

My rear set up fine so I don't believe the 80 suffers from any of those problems.
 

MITCH NEAL

New member
You are right, they moved the rear axle back 1" on the v8s/i6s, with the lift and tires that I am using, I had to get that 1" of clearance back. It is only a problem with the v8 800s and i6 800s. 4cyl 800s don't have the problem either.
 
you are right, they moved the rear axle back 1" on the v8s/i6s, with the lift and tires that I am using, I had to get that 1" of clearance back. It is only a problem with the v8 800s and i6 800s. 4cyl 800s don't have the problem either.
Actually they moved the body forward for engine compartment clearance, not the axle rearward. If I hadn't cut up those two bare frames I could have shown how the body mounts are in different spots.
 

Robert Kenney

Super Moderator
actually they moved the body forward for engine compartment clearance, not the axle rearward. If I hadn't cut up those two bare frames I could have shown how the body mounts are in different spots.
Interesting that the fa is still centered in its respective fender well but the ra is not.
 

Mastiff

Member
Robert, I forgot to ask, how do you like the mr. Scout springs? I heard they are very stiff. (I assume I can ask this since afaik ihon doesn't offer s80 lift springs.)
 

Robert Kenney

Super Moderator
Robert, I forgot to ask, how do you like the mr. Scout springs? I heard they are very stiff. (I assume I can ask this since afaik ihon doesn't offer s80 lift springs.)
I suppose it is all relative. I had the super heavy rear springs that came with the d44 and they were stupidly stiff. The ms spring is way better. Also adding the bilsteins Jeff got for me really helped limit the bounciness.

Not a lot of options with the 80 setup.. Short and narrow spring, limits the design to a thicker leaf thus a higher rate and somewhat stiffer ride. Of course if you didn't care to ever put and weight in it you can build a spring pack with thinner leafs and lower rate for a softer ride.
 

Mastiff

Member
I suppose it is all relative. I had the super heavy rear springs that came with the d44 and they were stupidly stiff. The ms spring is way better. Also adding the bilsteins Jeff got for me really helped limit the bounciness.

Not a lot of options with the 80 setup.. Short and narrow spring, limits the design to a thicker leaf thus a higher rate and somewhat stiffer ride. Of course if you didn't care to ever put and weight in it you can build a spring pack with thinner leafs and lower rate for a softer ride.
A guy on another forum is claiming that the mr Scout springs are just Skyjacker cj5 springs. Anyone know if this is the case? No need to pay an unnecessary markup.

I kind of doubt the claim because most things I've read about using Jeep springs on a Scout have not been good. Like that they sag in short order. What makes a Scout so much heavier than a Jeep anyway?
 
Top