• To ALL forum users - As of late I have been getting quite a few private messages with questions about build ups here on the forum, or tech questions about your personal project. While I appreciate the interest, sending me a private message about these topics distracts from, and undermines the purpose of having a forum here. During the day I wear many hats as a small business owner-operator and I work tirelessly to provide the absolute best service possible to you, our valued customer. When I created this forum I rounded up some of the best minds I knew so that any tech question you might have could be asked and answered by either myself or one of my highly experienced moderators, this way the next time this same question is asked the answer can be easily found and utilized by the next IH enthusiast having the same question. This allows me the freedom to run the day to day operations of the business and minimize the impact to shipments and shop activities that these distractions can cause. It is of the up most importance for me to complete the daily tasks in order to best take care of you our customer, all the while providing you a forum to get the level advice and input you have come to expect and deserve from the premier IH shop in the country.

    So with that I ask that anyone with a question about one of our build ups or a general tech question to please use the forum as it was intended. I am absolutely available by telephone to answer your questions as well but at times may direct you back to our website to better field your question or questions. Most other private messages I will be glad to answer for you.

    Thank you for your understanding.

    Jeff Ismail
    Owner/Operator

Before and After of My Scout 80 CS

Michael Mayben

IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
And here's a shot of an actual tapered 19 spline d44 p-lok, 1963 vintage. The dawg hair ain't that old, it's recent stuff. Yeah...I did sterilize the pumpkin guts before putting it back together!
 

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Greg R

Member
that seats the tapers and full strength is developed. Robertk knows this process well!
Here's a machinist's question: how would I get the tapers matched? My 69 came with a damaged hub/axle end, damaged from the former yokel not properly torqueing the nut. I replaced the axle with used, and sourced another hub. The deal is, from wear lines on the key and rust in the hub's bore; it appears there's some creep and fretting go'in on. Some bluing show'd there's some contact, but not to my liking. It still takes a hefty pull with the puller to get it to part, but from the looks of the key, the creep that's going on just ain't right.

Robert, yur rig is just outstanding!
 

Michael Mayben

IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
For many years in building motorcycle race motors, I lapped the flywheel to the crank taper.

Then I assembled using loktite "stud and bearing" grade. I think that's now what they refer to as "high strength", we just called it "green".

For a full strength setup of loktite products like that, it's imperative to use the associated primer.
 

Greg R

Member
I tried the lapping too. I even went as far as "power" lapping with the axle turning slowly in low gear and engine idling. I used a 180 grit to gently get 'er to seat. Stopping and checking with bluing. By the time I got what I would call an 80% contact, the hub was getting fer up the taper. Not way far, but a few threads on the nut farther. I figured the cast hub being softer, was more to getting the shaft's imperfect profile than a smooth taper on both; I was hoping to match the taper and not just that Shaft. As it is now, that hub can only go on that particular half shaft for a good fit and not have a lot of fretting. Greasing the rear wheel bearings fairly regularly has let me seen the taper and/or key wear. It's a way better fit than before the lapping in, but it's still fretting. The other side is in great condition as that side was not left loose. Locktite May be an option, but right now I don't need a torch to get the hubs off.
 

Robert Kenney

Super Moderator
for many years in building motorcycle race motors, I lapped the flywheel to the crank taper.
Greg,
what mm wrote is pretty much your only choice. The shaft is probably ok, it is the inner hub surface that is deformed. That is more difficult to address but not impossible. Lap with fine (320 grit) tapping compound.

I worked at a ge apparatus service center for about a year. One major part of our business was to rebuild diesel locomotive traction motors. (600hp dc) the motors had a drive pinion gear say 10 inches in diameter and 8" long that was fit on a tapered section of the armature shaft. The fit was checked with dykem and hand lapped on the high areas using long strips of croakus cloth (shoe shine style). And re-witnessed. This went on for hours until a contact pattern was achieved that met pre existing standards.
The taper interface had to be absolutely free of any and all oils and residues. Mek and the like was used over and over maybe 10 times with special towels until we/they were happy it was clean.

The pinion was then induction heated and jacked into place flush with the end of the shaft. No other mechanical means of retaining the pinion were employed only the taper.

That is the long and short of it..

The torque a "dry fit" taper will endure is a function of only two things.

1) the taper interface clamping load or (determined by amount of stretch the ring (hub, pinion) is subject to.

2) the coefficient of friction of the interface (materials and surface finish)

surface area really is not a factor in the calculation. However (always a however) :gringrin: the contact pattern must be wide enough to enable a stable fit and not rock.
 
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Robert Kenney

Super Moderator
Greg,
you posted again while I was typing and dealing with employees.

When you torque the hub on to the taper is the nut or washer bottoming on the end of the shaft taper? Take the nut off and look. You May not be generating enough clamping force. If you think that is a possibility add a washer so the hub has the ability to be forced on the taper unimpeded.

I have two hubs that were enlarged so the nut would bottom before reaching enough clamping load.
 

Greg R

Member
the fit was checked with dykem and hand lapped on the high areas
Thanks Robert, you resusitated some long forgotten memories. I've done that type of work on turbine generator journal bearings many many years ago. We didn't use crocus, but what we called cherry stones. I haven't run out of thread yet, but added a washer anyway as the nut was getting far from the cotter pin. I have a couple of used tapered axle shafts with scored or fretted tapers. Now that you've mentioned hand lapping the high spots,(strange I didn't think of this), I have hope that with getting the seal lands reground or sleeved, they can be restored to servicable use.
I guess it depends on the lapping compound vehicle, but hot water and soap is what I was taught to remove residuals. Solvents or kerosene won't do it. I wash the hubs in the sink when no one is looking:gringrin:
 

Michael Mayben

IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
Using loctite "green" on the taper will not impede hub removal at a later point. But for it to develop full capabilities ya must use primer.
 

Greg R

Member
Thanks Mike. I have the red and primer, so green must be for removable? So it'll be a trip to industrial supply.
 

Robert Kenney

Super Moderator
Michael, thank you for the compliment. I am enjoying it a lot more since finishing it. Well are they ever really finished?:icon_eek:
 

Robert Kenney

Super Moderator
I have been asked a few times about the top on my Scout so I decided to post some pictures of the structure that connects it the window to the roll bar. It also gives the top some shape. The verticle side flaps (I guess you'd call them that) cover the upper edge of the roll up window when it is up to prevent rain from getting in. I built the tube structure but had the top custom made at a local canvas and upholstery shop for $100.00 including installing and placing the snaps.

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nico9

Member
Where did you find the bikini top for it ive been looking for one for a while now and can only find them for the Scout 2
 

mcsmythe

Member
Every time I look at this thread, you're rig inspires me to get working on mine Robert. What kind of lift do you have and what size tires?
 

Robert Kenney

Super Moderator
Thanks' if I can help get more scouts or any IH on the road for that matter I am happy.. I need to finish it though as the dash and window frames are rough still.

I have mr Scout 2 1/2" lift springs and another 1" net lift from longer shackles. The tires are 32x10x16. It really needs a bit more lift for the tires because it will rub at the extreme right or left stop.

Jeff has talked about offering a ihon custom made lift spring set for the 80/800 with around 3 1/2 " of lift that will net 4 1/2 inches with the needed longer shackle. Call him and see if he has them yet.
 

cal4wheelin

New member
I know, old thread...but I love your Scout, hope I can make my 80 look like that before I get my drivers license. Anyways, im wondering what size tires are you running?
 
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