1965 D1100 4x4 driver/project

[Scoutboy74]

If you can make out the pole markings on the back of the gauge...yes, you should be able to...and if you can make out the pole markings on the diagram...legibility depending, then left Vs. right gauge orientation matters not a tinker's damn. Plus goes to plus and minus goes to minus. That's the foolproof way. And in this case, there is no ground. Plus is positive and minus is also positive.
Power for the cig lighter can be sourced from any convenient constant hot source, including the proper ammeter gauge post, or any circuit breaker location that is constant hot and not already overloaded. That's if you want the lighter always powered, which is generally how that has been handled since the dawn of time. Or, if you preferred it to be a switched feed, then you would just tap to a convenient IGN - ACC feed, preferably fused. The choice is yours. In either case, it would work fine for charging your hi-tek tawky tweeter.
What about those alternator wires I asked about? Don't be dodgin' me now!

 

[Gunfighter97]

Ok, I think (even in my noobieness) I may be on to something. First in regards to the alt, its externally indistinguishable from the 90amp unit it replaced, accept the hole for the plug is coverd over on the 90. I conected the heavy positive wire to the same post as it was on the 90 amp unit, see pic. The 2 wire plug only goes in one way. The gauge isn't marked and the diagram is questionably legible. I did find a couple pics I grabed for reference of a gauge on ebay that was simply cut out of the wire. The pole with 3 leads is on the left(steering wheel perspective) in its case. (See pics) I would think even with both poles being positive power will still have to flow properly? I hooked it up 3 wires on the right so perhaps I did it backwards.

 

[Gunfighter97]

Also on the splash guard specific diagram, they edited it for the 10si, and I did confirm, circuit 4(Plug pole 2) goes to starter. Acording to the rest of the diagram and edits, circuit 1 goes to firewall plug in circuit 129(normally circuit 1 goes into voltage regulator, then into circuit 129) 129 goes to the key switch.


*EDIT* I think I found my issue. IF and again IF the diagram showes pole conections from the BACK of the gauge, then I did them ALL quasi backwards because I incedentily did this upside down, with the gauge cluster leaned out if that makes sence.(it doesn't to me, but I've run out of words/hydration)

 

[Gunfighter97]

Ok, todays result, unplug everything and VERY CARFULLY do it over. Using my diagram as I probably would have, look at the back of the gauge and reference terminals that way. Most of the conections were reversed when I went over this the first time. Likely the cause is that I cant really look at the back of the gauge right side up accept through the windshield. So basically I did them backwards because Im looking at them upside down.... Maybe I was dyslexic before but I'm ko now
I'm blaming the sun btw

 

[Scoutboy74]

Slow down a little and help me get on the same page with you on a couple things:
#1 "Splash guard specific diagram"... WTF is this in reference to?
#2 What other 90 amp alternator with a covered up plug hole are you talking about?

 

[Gunfighter97]

The 90 amp unit I referenced is the one I replaced with the new 10si. The right splash guard diagram is just that. The diagram for the right splash guard wire bundle(ie alt/horn/lights for right side front)

*EDIT I've been inside where it's cool for a bit and now I'm realizing that when boiled my brain speaks gibberish lol

 

[Scoutboy74]

Ok. I've just never ever in 20 years of playing with these rigs heard it referred to that way. Seems very obscure to the point of a misnomer, but whatever.

The original alternator that required an external voltage regulator was not capable of 90 amp output. Maybe 50 amps max...maybe. Probably less. The 10si is available in a host of max amp output ratings from 37 to 63, but never 90 amps...at least not in unmodified form. Now, there are some vendors out there offering increased output/Hi-Po alternators in a 10si configuration. I've not had any personal experience with any of these offerings myself, but I have heard about them. What I've heard has been mostly negative. So if you popped for one of those "Hopped Up" 10si, you might want to rethink that choice.

Brings me to the next point. Your stock ammeter gauge was not designed to have high amperage loads across it. 60 amps is probably the maximum it was designed to handle. Now that 90 amp alternator, if that's indeed what it is rated to deliver, is a maximum number. It won't put out that much most of the time. Only when a heavy electrical demand has occurred, such as starter cranking for 30 seconds at a time. That's a practice you should modify going forward, but I digress. You should ask yourself if you really need an alternator with that high of max output. Are you going to install electric engine cooling fans? Are you going to have a big ass electric winch that you'll be doing some hard pulls with on a regular basis? Are you going to have a mega sound system with a wall of amplifiers that all go up to ellevendybillion?

 

[Gunfighter97]

Ok..... Let me start over... Sorry, brain no workey good when hot. I know it had an externally regulated generator. The guy who had it before me hacked it for a GM one wire 90 amp, and the ammeter was disconected. I replaced that for an off-the-shelf-orielieys 10si, and since I'm rewiring, I want everything to work. I'm begining to think I may be asking too much though lol. Its so dad-gum hot, its 101 in the shade here...

 

[Scoutboy74]

I hear that. It is ball-sweatin' hot. That makes guder sense. PO was at least wise enough to realize that his hi-po alternator might could start him a nice mallow-roasting fire up under the dash sometime, hence the ammeter bypass. You should be okay with hooking your gauge to an off the shelf O'wrongleez 10si. Probably 61 amp max output. Ammeters were a great match for old school generators...I'm talking pre-1965 charging systems. As generators became obsolete and got replaced by alternators, which are wound much differently BTW, ammeters were a hold over form of measurement that still worked fairly well for low amp output alternators. As time went on, cars got more sophisticated, electrical demands increased and alternator outputs had to increase in kind. That's when ammeters began to show their dark side. As you are now aware, the entire electrical load must pass across both ammeter terminals, inside the cabin, via a very long and relatively small gauge wire, before getting back to the battery. All domestic automakers did it this way for a time. GM and FoMoCo realized the downside of this combo early on and switched to voltmeter gauges for charging system measurement. Mopar and IHC instead chose to maintain the status quo. IH stuck with it through end of production in late 1980 and Mopar stuck with it well into the 80's, which is crazy to think about. Lot's of stranded motorists in 80's era Mopar products were left shaking their heads and reaching for fire extinguishers.
Voltmeter gauges are much more simpatico with alternators, especially when you start talking about max outputs approaching 100 amps and beyond. A voltmeter is essentially just an accessory that is connected to switched voltage. It does not have the entire electrical system load passing across it. With your truck having the individual round gauges, it would be easy for you to ditch your ammeter in favor of an aftermarket voltmeter. True, the gauge face would not match your other gauges, but...cue the vibrating, spittle-laced tongue/raspberry sound effect. Obviously I'm unapologetically biased against ammeters in favor of voltmeters. I recently went through a charging system failure in my '74 Scout in which the perfectly functional ammeter gauge gave me exactly zero, zip, zilch, nada, nunca indication that I had a problem. The warning I got was from the lights getting progressively more dim, the radio wigging out and the engine stumble-bumbling along because I was running off a battery that wasn't being replenished by the alternator. A voltmeter gauge would have indicated this issue well before any of those devices began shutting down. Don't take my word for it though. Check out websites like Madelectrical and others that do a far better job of explaining the situation than I ever could.
Now, to your starter cranking process when the truck has sat for awhile...You should try to limit your cranking intervals to no more than 15 second bursts at a time, with plenty of pedal pumping in between as you pause the starter. Less is more. A little trick you can do when the situation allows, is to prime the carb from above with a small amount of clean gas poured in. That should light the engine off right away. Now, it may not stay running that first time. You might have to lather, rinse, repeat, but that will get the engine running much faster with a minimum of starter cranking, which is the goal. Why is this happening? Your fuel pump isn't holding pressure, so the fuel drains back to the tank. Its a common issue with mechanical fuel pumps, unfortunately. How have people dealt with it? Several ways. One is to rig an auxiliary electric fuel pump back near the tank on a momentary switch just to prime the fuel line in advance of starter cranking. Another method involves installing a check or one-way valve in the fuel line between the mech pump and the carb. That prevents the carb fuel bowl contents from draining back into the tank. I like this option. Lots for you to digest here. Hopefully you can do it in climatized comfort.

 

[Gunfighter97]

Yyyeeea. So, Im gona try it tomorow with the gauge wiring reworked. And double check while its cool. Anyways I know the ammeter could be replaced, you have to keep my CDO in mind though. Honestly with the 63 amp 10si I'll trust it untill I have more severe issues directly related to it..... More popcorn..... Potato chips.... Fire extinguisher..... I don't mind the quirks so much like the fuel draining back into the tank, I like it as a reminder of times past... Even if all my friends in their ricers laugh at me, it blows a cloud of blue smoke in their face as it lights off one random cylinder at a time, makes it worth it lol. Also at the end of the day this thing is what will be pulling their suicidal rear ends out of ditches. Duely noted on the 10-15 second bursts, it was one of those mental, "this is probs not good but screw it" things. Maybe a fuel pump rebuild would help? Kinda one of those things I would do anyways eventually. My carburator is encased in jb weld also so I assume maybe I'll upgrade or rob the one off my parts truck(v266? Compatable?) Also considering now the posibilities regarding a hydraulic motor on my ramsey 8k. Has anyone done that before? Or more trouble than its worth? I'm going for a sort of resto mod ish thing. Its never gona be like it was originally, but improving it while keeping it looking original and not cut up/hacked is my goal. I don't drink, but rewiring this truck might start the list of things I drink to forget. I'm thinking about cheap(ish) summer things I can do without temporarily killing it. I'd love a bed rack that was modular, maybe a way to carry a canoe then change it to have a half round canvas cargo cover if I wanted. (Would be awesome since I hunt and rain is a thing) anyways, geting better bit by bit. I may add some auxiliary guages(voltage may be among them) also I have a couple old aircraft gauges(altimeter and manifold pressure) I thought would be cool to add on the bottom of the dash. I'm just dreaming at this point- I'm also really tired and I ramble when I'm tired hopefully this is one of the times its semi entertaining, more madness to come, stay tunned.

 

[Scoutboy74]

Copy. Hopefully it will behave normally. CDO?=OCD...bah, I dunno. Can't keep up with all these psycho-babble acronyms. Yeah, an FP rebuild couldn't hurt. JB weld on the carb? Oof. That's no bueno. Parts carb might be suitable following a thorough inspection and overhaul.

 

[Gunfighter97]

Ok, while I'm out today, I'm hoping to pick up some oil for the 304. 10w40 seems to be popular, also can anyone tell me how much this beast takes? PO told me he ran it a quart over full and I have confirmed that seems to be comon since volume not pressure is how these work(at least to my understanding). I have found the capacity for scouts but I think I read somewhere that they have a different pan? So would that effect capacity? I should just suck it up and buy a shop manual I think.
*edit on my LST factory engine is the v304E low comp export don't know if that helps
*edit again any particular brand oil or something special thats a favorite in the comunity?

 

[Scoutboy74]

Its generally 6 quarts with filter change. Run the engine a minute or so after you get 6 in, let it settle for a minute, then check your level on the stick. It won't hurt anything to be a quart over, but isn't a necessary with your oil pan. The quart over full is more of a necessity with the Scout dual sump pan. I suggest WIX/NAPA, Hastings or Baldwin brand filters. Purolator is a good option too. I'd shy away from the Fram, though. Today's off the shelf oils don't have enough ZDDP in them to adequately protect our vintage, flat tappet engines. If you can't pony up for the Swepco that IHPA offers, you should consider a diesel rated oil in the 15W-40 rating. Not a perfect solution, but they are safe to run in gas engines. There are ZDDP additives that you can add along with conventional motor oil, but that has us Joe Shadetree trying to play backyard chemist. Will you get the ratio right? Too much ZDDP can be as bad as not enough. If you've never heard of this, its a real thing. Just google ZDDP and you'll come up with enough reading to make your eyes bleed.

 

[Gunfighter97]

I'm glad you mentioned that about zddp, nearly forgot that. So it sounds like IHPA has a formulated oil for these engines? If so I will research it before I buy anything. Just didn't occur to me to look. I already have a new wix filter cartridge. I was going to add a bottle of rislone and drain an equivalent amount of oil to try and get the lifter noise to go away before I changed the oil.

 

[Scoutboy74]

https://www.ihpartsamerica.com/store/SWEPCO-ENGOIL-306.html

Short for Southwestern Petroleum Company. It ain't cheap, but it has what these old engines need without having to do any hocus pocus or mumbo jumbo. Just pour it in and forget it. There is also a sub-heading in the tech forum where the SWEPCO sales rep has posted a lot of information about lubricants in general. We didn't have to worry about this crap until about 15 years ago. Its all been done under the guise of protecting catalytic converters, with the unintended, or perhaps intended side effect of prematurely damaging older engines.

 

[Gunfighter97]

Thanks for the link, I think I may go with this. I don't mind spending that much on oil if I know its going to help the old valve tappets out. Oil is important anyways, when my wallet starts crying I'll tell it its like buying nice tires or something.

 

[Scoutboy74]

Good attitude!

 

[Gunfighter97]

Sigh...... Three days of foiled plans and a sprained elbow later..... I've quadruple checked EVERYTHING and I think I'm ready to try this again. Attached pic is of my original radio harness, 5 amp fuse, original speaker still under the dash, and original receiver antenna, any idea if theres a modernish radio I could plug and play into this? No idea if that antenna can receive FM as well as AM
Hopefully small enough to hide while still being semi accessible (good luck to myself on that). Honestly I would be fine just finding an original to put back in if I knew a make/model. That said I like music more than talk radio accept for the times I like talk radio more

 

[Scoutboy74]

Google Retrosound or something similar. The antenna and coax will pick up both am and fm. Have you examined the dash speaker? Usually the voice coil material on those ancient relics has rotted away to doll rags by now. Not exactly hi fidelity sound from one puny little speaker anyway. It won't be loud and clear enough to overcome combined engine and road noise.

 

[Gunfighter97]

Ok, so a bit of trouble shooting later:

Wipers done
Horn done(horn itself bad temporary switch wired)
Marker light wire done (not working)
Backup light wire done (not working)
Ammeter works properly
Oil press works properly
Fuel and temp unknown
Signals not done
Dome light not working(issues known(ground/missing horn fuse))
Tail lights not working
Brake lights not working

Ok, being that Ive put the marker and backup lights on the unused "clear marker" slot, that gets power from the "tail" slot, I'm tracing that back to my HL switch (the one I repaired ) so I've ordered a repro replacement. The only one I could find is identical on classic industries, aparently its a 1957-1963 GM part lol. I have also tested the tail leads that I didn't replace and they are ok, the lights themselves could probably be grounded better even though they used to work. The good news is that things that previously didnt work now do (panel lights/dimmer, parking lights, wipers(switch is sketchy), and gauges. I suspect temp will work since I havent run it for more than 5 minutes at a time for testing, and also for fuel to work since it reads empty and the tank is almost empty. Just to make a note here so I wont forget I don't think the hi beam indicator light worked, couldn't see well (likely just a bad bulb(I had a tub of miscellaneous random bulbs from under the seat, the ones I removed, and the ash tray)). Will be back once I have the replacement switch! Stay tunned for Hecho en Mexico, unreasonable frustration from simply fixed problems, and hunting for a working horn!

 

[Gunfighter97]

AAAHA!!!!! So the three wires on my diagram I have for tail end lights are one to HL switch(marker) and two to a single terminal of the brake switch; in addition my signal connector(6 terminal) only has 3 poles filled on my diagram. I noticed this morning that the signal switch plug has all 6 terminals full...... Manny hours of sweaty continuity testing later, I have found:
1 pole to flasher
2 poles to left/right front sig/inds respective of side
2 poles to circuit 115 and 117(brake light wires)
1 pole to brake switch

An hour of not so sweaty research later I found out that aparently the signal switch disconnects the needed rear wire from the brake switch circuit! So I just need to figure out wich witch is wich on my signal switch. Yeesh.
And let me reiterate: NONE OF THIS IS ON THE DIAGRAM!?!? in other news, I now have a working horn, some incompetent forgot to plug the relay in. the sound reminds me of a VW Beetle for some reason but I don't care, it works.

 

[Gunfighter97]

In other other news....... I seriously dont even know anymore.... C pic I'm done

 

[Scoutboy74]

Not the original steering wheel. I didn't notice that before. I wonder if the steering column is original or a swapped in piece? Got a pic of the interior of your parts truck? Comparison and contrast might be interesting.

 

[Gunfighter97]

I know it wasnt orriginal but seriously? See pics
I guess they do say the Benze is hard to beat, but I didnt think they meant for spare parts!?! Is that cap a ceiling fan hanger cover?!? Aaaahhh...... Sherman, you issuey buddy.....

 

[Gunfighter97]

This is a pick of a 1968 rust bucket I took for reference before I bought this truck, its slightly different than this ones original wheel but I believe the columns are the same or similar.