Limited disassembly of a 1980 IC 196

For those of you following this thread, I have started a new thread for the crank-fire conversion. It's called the "megajolt/edis crank-fire conversion". I hope you continue following the progress of my conversion to a modern-ish (1990s) Ford edis crank-fire, wasted spark, system powered by a megajolt, jr. Programmable ignition module. The primary driver for going this route is that it will properly address the unique ignition needs that arise when I get to the final stage of my project - turbocharging this 196 and basically fashioning a "196t", if you will.
 
Now I get to work out the bugs. Engine running via megajolt, and I've occasionally driven it up my street and back (about 1 mile round trip). Maybe 10 miles on it. It definitely isn't roadworthy with badly worn suspension and steering parts. Yesterday I warmed it up and pulled the valve cover to verify push rod rotation. All turn well, but the same one is still very slow. At idle it just creeps around (I put black dots on the rods so you could tell), but does still turn. I'm of a mind to just forget about it for a while and fix other things. There is no valvetrain noise that I can detect, other than an occasional 'tick', but that May not be related at all.

Here's the current problem. I never let it set and just idle for more than a few minutes, but did so yesterday. Engine warmed up, and although I don't have a shroud on it, temps rose and it started running a bit rough. Removed the cap and there was no boiling coolant so it wasn't overheating. It won't idle below about 750 rpm, before it would get down to 500. Although this carb isn't "in the plan" long term, I think it's the problem. It's a 1940. As the p.o. (or p.o.s') had jacked some things around, I'm just waking up to little details about how the original installation was. The carb sits directly on the manifold with just a thin gasket. Did these things have one of those thick spacers? If it needed one, maybe too much heat is being transferred to the bowl.

Edit: I don't know how it ran as well as it did. Took the carb apart. I had put a kit in it a while back, and never thought long term I'd really need to fix it right, so never looked real close at it. The return-spring side shaft hole is really egged out, throttle cable side worn, but not as horrible. Float level was also off almost 1/4" (too high). So now I'll re-bush this thing myself to minimize air leakage past the throttle shaft. Am running a large file over the bottom of the throttle body surface, as it is also slightly warped. I also went down to napa and got a suitable insulator-type spacer for between the carb and manifold. We are now so far past carbs that counter people don't know how to deal with looking up carb parts, if they even have them in stock.
 
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Finally got around to repairing the loose throttle shaft on the Holley 1940 carb. Bought a reamer (0.413 w/0.370 shank), used a dremel to back-cut "teeth" on the backside of the flutes, inserted the reamer and backwards-cut the hole. Shank serves as pilot. Machined a brass bushing to press fit into the hole (0.420" od into 0.417" id). Now there is, say, 0.001" play on that side. I chose to not press my luck and ream the linkage side, as it only has 0.006" play, within what is considered spec (<0.008"). Before it was over 0.020". I filed flat the slightly warped throttle plate, now will reassemble and fix the stripped screw holes. Hoping it will now maintain a stable idle.

Addendum: put all back together. Any idling below about 750 rpm is rough, no matter what I do. I can't see for the life of me how the book can say set idle to 550 rpm (not that I want to), as I don't see how that's possible. Any ideas, anyone?
 

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I need to put a few miles on this engine before I move on to adding the turbo. However, to date, I've put maybe three or four miles on it driving up and down my street (if illegal aliens are undocumented workers, then I have an undocumented truck). Still have the break-in oil in it, even. I need it running much better before I slap insurance on it and truck on down to dmv to get the plates. Here's my progress so far. Overall, I am unhappy with how it runs, mostly how it idles. Not real smooth. I've seen these four-bangers sit there and idle like a sewing machine. Not mine. I even had it balanced.
1) carb had real sloppy shafts. Rebushed. The Holley 1940 is a real simple carb, and I have it set up by the numbers, so there's not much else that can be done with it. Installed a 1/4" insulator gasket between it and the manifold. I can't detect any vacuum leaks around the intake manifold or any of the hoses. In rebushing, recentered butterfly so when closed has slight, but even, light coming through all around.
2) looking for the best timing at idle. Have run from 8 to 20 degrees. Right now 12 is looking best, but still not satisfied. Engine responds to the carb's idle screw. Right now somewhere around 2 turns out - more than that, slows down. Less than about 1 1/2, idle drops, so things are working like they should.
3) discovered (!) the other day that the power brake booster was leaking badly, and I think the internal leakage was erratic. Sometimes would idle better than at other times for no apparent reason, so that was throwing me off. Clamped it off - idle suddenly dropped big time. Now beginning the tuning all over again. Now using 12 degrees at idle, which helps. Best idle, still not super smooth, is around 800 rpm. Can get it to idle down to 550 rpm, but that's waaay to slow. I'd love it around 650 and smooth.
4) am going to reload the timing table and use bill's 4-cyl map, (sum avg), and go from there.
5) am thinking today of warming it up and doing a compression test just to see what's going on at this point. Lifters sound quiet, but you know, all IH engines I've ever owned have funny little sounds. This one sounds no different than the non-ic 196 I rebuilt 30 years ago. Odd little tics and such but nothing I'd call valvetrain noise out of the ordinary.
6) best vacuum is 48 kpa (close to 16" hg) @ 18 degrees initial, idling around 800-850 rpm. As this little four needs to pull power steering, a higher idle is desirable.

Edit: warmed it up and drove it a bit. Did a compression test:
#1 - 148 lbs., #2 - 148, #3 - 151, #4 - 151. All hit at least 100 lbs. By the second revolution. Final numbers by the fifth revolution. All plugs light brown color, but one had a gap of around 0.020" (how does that happen), rest around 0.030", reset all to 0.035". Programmed idle for 18 degrees, which has improved things.
 
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Mark,
I know you had pcv concerns. That plays a big part in variable idle quality. Try blocking it off and see if it stabilizes.

Your compression numbers look good for a 9-1 engine....
 
I replaced it with the proper one. When running, I can feel slight, rapid pulses moving through it. I'm going to put the wrong one in and see what happens, as well as blocking it completely. Still have pressure coming out of the filler, not slight vacuum like you describe. But I'm not seeing if that's really a problem. ?????

I calculated 8:1 c.r., not 9:1 . I have published data here in the 1968 truck motor manual that says cranking pressure for a 196/392 should be 143 psi, +/- 10 psi, so I was quite gratified with the numbers . so it is what it is .

I'll chug on out and mess around with the pcv valves .

edit: ran it w/o pcv valve . idle dropped around 20-30 rpm . idle quality was different, I'd say better, although not a "sewing machine" . so....what does this tell me ? and still with the positive pressure . if I have compression this good, it shouldn't have much blow-by . so what's up with the positive pressure ? it did this before I rebuilt it . ??????

Other thing: you know how almost all these IH engines have the periodic "puff" sound (random misses) coming from the tail pipe? W/o pcv, I wasn't hearing them.
Now my real concern is with those positive pulses coming out of the crankcase. Will that pressure keep a turbo from draining? I don't know if I want to go back to the old road-draft tube!
 
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With the oil fill cap installed and it running, there should be a net inflow of air into the port that would normaly hook to the middle of the air cleaner. As you increase the rpm unloaded the pcv valve should allow greater flow and suck the engine down if you block the port I mention earlier.
The cranking pressure published is greatly effected by a short duration cam like they came with. If all things remained the same a bigger cam (later intake valve closing) will reduce cranking cylinder pressures.
You are still making book or better pressures so your engine acts like it has a higher than stock compression.
 
I understand crankcase ventilation and flow, but am puzzled by the fact that I don't have excessive blow-by (assumed by my good compression numbers), but could be wrong. If not wrong, then what generates the excess positive pressure? And how do you get rid of it if not through the pcv valve, assuming an otherwise sealed system? The baffle and spark-arresting fitting on the valve cover isn't blocked.

Bottom line is where do I go from here?

Other question. Since I have such good compression, I was targeting 8:1 for boost considerations. If these numbers are showing a 9:1, am I screwed? :icon_eek: I had put a bunch of numbers into those "effective" compression calculators and came up okay. Please explain what's going on here.
 
Mark I never questioned your understanding of the pcv system but rather what you are experiencing at the oil fill tube....
Humor me and stick a vacuum gauge on the small port. Use a tiny fitting to damp out the pulsation and increase the rpm, watch the gauge.... You must see some suction. If not you have a problem...


I also don't think you have seated the rings yet.. Take a look at it some miles down the road...

After you start force inducing the pcv line will need a check valve so you don't blow air out and into the crankcase. All of the blow by will exit the engine into the air filter housing.
 
No offense taken. I don't understand what you're saying by "small port" ...there is suction through the pcv valve, but I haven't quantified it. When I clamp off the hose from the tappet cover to the pvc inlet, idle changes. Do you mean running it at fast idle and seeing what kind of pressure is in the crankcase? And (or) I have a vacuum gauge I can put on the dipstick tube. At the end of the day you're probably right - just need the rings to seat better. I do know one thing, though. The engine does seem to run strong, and easily spins up to 3,500 rpm without protest. Can wait until it breaks in a bit more to get it up to 4k or so just to see how it handles it.

About a check valve. Exactly what part # would you recommend (you must have a source). And, would I also need a check valve for the hose going into the power brake booster?

All of this must wait until I get back home. In socal this week on business. Darn, it was sure windy coming into the pomona valley via the 210.
 
Ok the pcv removes the crankcase vapor/air and you should have a fitting on the engine that acts as return air. That is the small fitting. On the early 4 bangers you have a fitting in the fill tube coming off of the front cover. On yours the pcv should plumb to the valve cover or the valley/lifter cover... Could be the other way round but either way one is an inlet/out let based on crankcase pressure and throttle position... Hook a gauge to the in feed line and see what the net pressure profile is at given rpm's. A small goose of the throttle will increase manifold pressure enough to allow the pcv to open more fully.
 
Fired it up and let it warm up. I have the spark arrestor on the valve cover, that feeds air into the crank case via the air cleaner. At idle I feel a slight vacuum, which goes away when revved. So that's the answer? Perhaps the "blow" coming from the valve cover (oil filler cap hole) is the rapid paddle motion of the boat-style rockers right below it (and fairly close to the hole - check yours out) moving the air out of the hole. Is that maybe too obvious or what? :icon_mrgreen:
 
The suction at idle is what I was wanting you to feel. Upon initial rev the suction will go away but should return after the rpm stabilizes. Your good with the idle suction. The puffing you feel is the standing waves from the piston movement. It is only the in and out with no net out flow. Good enough:winky:
 
Been super busy at work the past couple of months, but have had a few opportunities to continue getting this truck road-worthy, eventually. The suspension isn't safe, but I manage blasting up and down my street every weekend.

I've figured out something that's bugged me about these engines for over thirty years. Probably a "duh", but for me a confirmation. I've previously rebuilt a 196, and it had a 1bbl carb on it with what I now would believe had a worn throttle shaft. Even fresh, it would have that odd miss while idling. My '75 w/345 also had that odd miss while idling, but that engine had 400k. Now this fresh one, with new guides and mostly new valves all properly sized, also had that odd miss at idle. Even after rebushing the throttle shaft.

It went away when I put a fresh vacuum booster in it. Now a steady, miss-free idle. Although the first 196 I rebuilt was an early with non-power brakes, it had a worn throttle shaft. So it seems that the mysterious "lean" miss comes from slight leakage around a worn or loose throttle shaft (non-power brakes) and/or from a very slightly leaking booster, one you'd otherwise not suspect of having a problem. So now I have a fresh booster and m/c, now going to replace the leaking front hoses and rusted calipers.
 
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Robert,
a footnote regarding the little pock-Mark in my deck near #3 cylinder. I was checking out your stickie about the differences between ic and non-ic 392 blocks. In your shot of the right bank of the ic-392, the little defect can be clearly seen in the deck for the rear-most two cylinders. You shot of the left bank is too dark but I wonder if they don't manifest there as well. I agree it is probably an artifact from the foundry process.
 
Been extremely busy with my day job and other pressing realities, but have now found a bit of time to continue on with the project.

A recap of the "turbocharger" situation. There were recent comments elsewhere about using a more modern turbo, , efi, etc. While that is all well and good, I am going to use what I have planned to use all along - old technology - because that is what I have on hand, and I acknowledge the shortcomings. It is simple, has been proven, and most importantly, I have actual experience with it (don't underestimate the value of hands-on experience) and doesn't require complicated fabbing for which I have no $$$ or equipment. So there. :smilewinkgrin: I eventually would like to go with some variant of efi, but that is down the road, and not now. I also eagerly watch the progress of Robert k., who's project is moving along as well. Unfortunately, we seem to be the only two who are actively doing something along these lines. Unless there are others I'm not aware of.

If you go back to some of my earlier posts, my calculations indicate the original 152t turbo (a trw b flow) is wholly inadequate for the flow requirements of a 196 turning maybe 4,500 rpm - max - and 7 lbs. Boost. An f flow, found on the later corvairs, is better, but marginal. In fact, too marginal for my comfort level. I have the f flow components, however. There was another possibility here, though. The trw turbo was sold off to rayjay, who upgraded it with an e flow variant for engines 200 - 300 c.I. So my plan is to put together a trw/rayjay turbo that has an e flow compressor, coupled with an f flow turbine. Here's the rationale for this: a trick used successfully (I did this, in fact) with the corvair setup was to marry a late f flow cold side with the early b flow hot side - this gives quicker spooling and greater boost and flow, to a point. In effect, I am going to prove this trick works with a 196. Since these engines turn so slow, the rayjay e flow would likely have late boost. In this way I believe I can bring boost on around 2,800 - 3,000 rpm, by using an f turbine, which is smaller than an e turbine, which would meet my needs. That's my premise, and with my gearing of 3.73:1, I'm hopeful it will pan out.

Towards this end. A few days ago I sent off the stock IH trw "b" flow turbocharger compressor housing to be machined to accept an "e" flow compressor wheel. It should be back in a week or so, but there will not be time (vacation) for me to assemble it before, say, late August.

Today I performed another modification to the disassembled turbo. In the original 152t installation, oil is supplied to the turbo with a fitting that enters the center section, at about the 11 o'clock position. Due to the fittings, I am a bit nervous that I May not have underhood clearance for this. So I drilled a new oil feed, which will allow oil to enter the center section at about the 5 o'clock position. How can I do this? Easy. The IH turbo is the generic trw b flow, whose center section was cast with three webs supporting the bearing support (web every 120 degrees, interspaced with a drain boss every 120 degrees as well). Any of these can/were drilled according to application needs. So I chucked it into my drill press and did a pretty good job of lining it up and drilling it through. The old passage will be plugged with a 1/8" pipe plug. I broke through a little off center, but I have an extra center housing here where the factory machinist did little better. :icon_mrgreen:

with the corvair turbo, GM spec'd only one supporting web, and a drain in a particular orientation, which met their need, but limits its use for other operational needs. That's why these turbos don't readily lend themselves for fodder as an option to the 152t unit.
 

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For some reason, there is a glitch preventing me from adding more pics to my post. So I am adding here the center housing mounted in a drill press vise, so I can use a 3/16" bit to tip the housing to the correct angle prior to drilling, using the existing hole. Then a pic of centering it after rotating it 120 degrees to the location of the next web. Then drilling, then tapping it for a 1/8" pipe fitting (will take a flare adaptor).

In the previous post there is a pic of the original 152t setup showing how the oil feed comes into the top near the 11 o'clock position.
 

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And this completes it. This fitting will end up being clocked at about 5 o'clock.
 

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Update: in my drive to get this truck on the road, new engine broken in, plus a needed spare vehicle - before I can get to my ultimate turbo conversion - I'm going to have to smog this thing per kalifornia smog rules. The original owner(s) stripped the 49-state emissions equipment (it came from Nevada) and now putting that stuff back on is a pain. I have the smog rail, smog pump, will buy a new cat (original was still in place but major fubar), and am seeking the elusive 1979-80 "gulp valve". This truck will have to go to the referee station in sacramento for their "blessing". No way around it.

Since the front clip is still off and I need to remove pieces of the exhaust system to get a cat in there, I thought I'd take the opportunity to bolt up the turbo manifolding to gauge a few things that were mysteries to me. 1st was to verify that the 3-bolt manifold and wedge would not prevent the use of the ubiquitous a/c mounts found on most later engines. I had concerns as the front end of the manifolding comes out from the side of the block several inches more. The alternator does clear, but will require the use of much longer belts. This will swing the alternator way out and close the the inner fender, but it will work.

The second is to gauge how much of the original exhaust piping stub will need to be cut off to weld on a new 2.5" elbow and continue downward with a sloping piece that will tuck in between the frame and starter. Should clear. Then get it under the bell housing/trans to transition to where the new cat will go. Afterwards I won't remove the cat, I'll just plumb the turbo into it. It has 2.5" inlet/outlets and has a carb # (most importantly) and seems to be universal for the 79-80 IH 196, 304 and 345. I doubt the newer style cats are all that restrictive. Then when I convert to this, I'll have the exhaust ready to go.

Another thing was to see how much under hood clearance exists for the turbo's central bearing housing. I put a level on the top of the 1-bbl air cleaner, and found it is at the same level as the top of the turbo. I have new motor mounts but sagged body mounts, and am thinking that I will cut the new rubbers to 0.75" (plus the funny washer) which will get me to 7/8". Present mounts are 1/2".

So here are some pictures of what this is beginning to look like.
 

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