rascal7298
New member
Has the old iron pdf been updated to include photos?
I-4 and SV Engine Non-Oiling Rocker Assembly
- Thread starter Michael Mayben
- Start date
Robert Kenney
Super Moderator
No, not that I know of. Unless one of us dicker with it it won't be updated any time soon. Mm is no longer active in the IH world as far as I know.
chopperkarl
New member
The IH service manual contradicts itself on rocker arm shaft orientation. In the manual (cts-2130-k) page 34, figure 109 and para 7 says the notch should be oriented "up". Later on page 53, para 28, says the notch should be facing "down". Not sure why the discrepancy. I have the 9 stand, welded type and am planning to go with "up" orientation based on reading this thread. Any thoughts on why the manual lists conflicting guidance? Am I missing something?
Thanks
Thanks
chopperkarl
New member
Thread sealant: since I do not have the nylon locking bolts for the rocker stands I had planned on using blue thread locker to both lock and seal the threads. I noticed mention of just using permatex #2. Any reason not to use blue locker? I also have high temp thread sealant, but was concerned about lack of locking strength.
Thanks.
-karl
Thanks.
-karl
Probably just a discrepancy between revisions.
Welded rockers go one way, stamped boat rockers have the oil holes/notches the other way.
Boat need to have the oil holes down, welded up. Iirc
Great run down on the oil system and start up procedure . I have 345 ci 1110 pickup it has sitting in the woods for about 20 years. I started it up it ran well and then it promptly bent two push rods. I tore it down , rings bearings lifters and valves. It all looked good no metal on the ( babbitt) flakes did not touch the cam so far the lubrication system is doing what it is supposed to except the right bank lifters don't appear to be getting oil pressure. That is the right side sounds like it has badley adjusted solid lifters is it possible for the rocker to get oil and not the lifters. I did notice the pulsating feed to the rockers that works. Any suggestions???
Gordon
Gordon
Robert Kenney
Super Moderator
First off spitting pushrods is very common on an old stagnant IH sv engine for two reasons.
1) is old fuel and varnish deposits in the fuel system that will dissolve in fresh fuel and stick intake valves in a hurry. Usually the sticking and resultant bent pushrods occur after a run and restart where the fuel dries in the guide and leaves the varnish behind.
Fix is to flush out all lines, fuel valves and, tanks to remove the old fuel varnish. New fuel and acetone mixed 50/50 works well.
Refill with fresh gas.
For the next time you run the engine take it for a long drive or run it for a long tine with fresh oil to work the varnish out of the guides and allow oil to get in well.
2) seizing of valves in guides do to a failed #2 of #4 cam bearing. Verify oil flow by taking an old valve cover and cutting the top off so you can view the oil supply to the rockers. Repeat on both banks.
Here is a oil flow diagram that shows how the oil passages direct oil to the rocker assemblies and valves. The center bearing shown represents the #2 and #4 cam bearing. Each one of these bearings supply oil to one head.
http://forums.IHPartsAmerica.com/showthread.php?t=7737
The lifters oil is supplied by the rear cam bearing. The rear cam bearing passes oil that is supplied from the main bearing below, into a common cavity (covered by a plate with 4 bolts) at the rear of the block. Because the right and left lifter oil galleries are fed from the common cavity, they will either both get oil or not. In some cases, if oil flow is compromised and low the supply can be
Great info thanks very much. As much as I hate to I think I will pull the intake manifold and make sure oil is making its way to all the lifters. Since I looked at the 2 jpgs (your drawing) and the other one out of the manual I have a pretty good idea what to inspect. If I run the pump with a drill should have continuous or pulsating oil flow to the lifers??? I am getting pulsating oil to both rockers. If I remove the rear lifters on both sides run the oil pump and get oil then all I need to do is verify the gallery is clear all the way to the front. Right ? If not then out with the cam to inspect all the bearings . At this point I have 25 psi at an idle
thanks again gordon
thanks again gordon
Robert Kenney
Super Moderator
You can view oil oozing out from around the lifters through the pushrod holes in the heads. Simply remove a valve cover and spin the pump.
The rear cam journal does have a groove around it so oil will flow at a constant but lower rate at any clocking position. There is a cross hole in the journal that will provide much greater flow while it is vertical. You could try it at it's random position first as it will eventually fill the galleries and show up around the lifter and bore.
The rear cam journal does have a groove around it so oil will flow at a constant but lower rate at any clocking position. There is a cross hole in the journal that will provide much greater flow while it is vertical. You could try it at it's random position first as it will eventually fill the galleries and show up around the lifter and bore.
Thanks Robert. I will peek through the push rod holes and make sure I have oil oozing out around all lifters and report back all lifters are new, all pushrods are new, all. Valves and guides were checked and lapped in rods , mains and rings replaced along with new oil pump . I did not know about the pulsating oil to the rockers till I read your thread. Thank you. Gordon
Michael its gordon. I was able to see all the lifters and the are getting oil plenty of oil. I did however find 3 bent push rods I think gummy old fuel caused the valve to stick on start up I also found on ton of play in the rocker shaft itself. I am going to verify the sticking valve theory. Tomorrow by turning it over by hand with plugs out. Any suggestions on cleaning the valve stems. Gordon
Robert Kenney
Super Moderator
Hi gordon, unfortunately for all, michael mayben has retired from all forms of IH iron. He is missed by all. 
do you have the boat or welded rockers? Play while less than desirable, is not by itself the cause of the noise. More than likely you have multiple valves not moving correctly.
To clean the guides, use carduretor cleaner sprayed on the stem and guides. Multiple applications and followed my a quality spray oil. I recommend removing the spring and working the valve till free. Repeat for each. If you do chose to remove the springs do it one at a time. Replace the oring seals or stem seals depending on type installed.
do you have the boat or welded rockers? Play while less than desirable, is not by itself the cause of the noise. More than likely you have multiple valves not moving correctly.
To clean the guides, use carduretor cleaner sprayed on the stem and guides. Multiple applications and followed my a quality spray oil. I recommend removing the spring and working the valve till free. Repeat for each. If you do chose to remove the springs do it one at a time. Replace the oring seals or stem seals depending on type installed.
:
Robert I cleaned the valve stems with carb cleaner then sprayed stems with a combination of spray graphite and silicone spray ran the engine for about 2 hours all went well
now all I need is a set of rocker shafts hush up the clatter
will let you know how changing the rockers works out
gordon
Robert I cleaned the valve stems with carb cleaner then sprayed stems with a combination of spray graphite and silicone spray ran the engine for about 2 hours all went well
now all I need is a set of rocker shafts hush up the clatter
will let you know how changing the rockers works out
gordon
Today I disassembled the passenger side rocker shaft and found 2 badley worn spots on the shaft and the corresponding 2 rockers with bushing material worn away. In searching for replacement assemblies I found first of all they were in high demand and that reconditioning existing shafts costs as much as new ones. So---- I ordered replacements. More to come gordon
Robert Kenney
Super Moderator
Adding to fd's "ball/ball pushrod" requirement,
on your welded rocker shaft, the rocker arm oil hole was positions up, on the boat rockers it needs to be positioned down.
When you install the new parts, you will have 9 stands. I don't know if your new shafts have 9 bolt holes. The later shafts that were used with boat rockers had only 5 stands. 5 is fine but you will need to plug the extra bolt holes. They go into the intake runners. A bolt and copper crush washer works well. Make sure you locate the stand so the pushrods don't rub the pass through holes in the heads.
Pg 3 of this post has the best detail.. http://forums.IHPartsAmerica.com/showthread.php?t=868&page=3
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Perfect thank you for the quick reply. The push rods should be here tomorrow so I will be very interested to see how it works out I ordered some 3 inch by 11" brake shoes for the front of the pick up. Of cause they were not the same as the ones I took off. Starting with the upper mounting point (flat on the old cupped on the new. That was cured by tapping off a small steel wedge exposing the pin to accept the cupped area. Secondly the upper return springs were hooked on a tang protruding from the underside of the shoe. That was solved by drilling an extra hole in the shoe spine to accept the original spring. Determined not to be beaten I also had to drill and thread a pivot point for the self adjuster. On top of all got two sets , one riveted and one set bonded. I decided to use the riveted set and wouldn't you know it I got one side fitted and I had 2 trailing shoes. I double checked the one I had retro fitted and the were correct. Short in front long in back.
