Scoutaholic

Nice stuff! We gotta lotta old IH iron up here involved in our club ops, and then we got a nice relationship with the tractor/ag folks going also. All the archived pics of the stuff can be found at our club website by clicking on the "old website link" and looking for pics from previous Binder Bee productions:

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And then...go into our "reader's rides" sub-forum and start up a thread for your current project!
 
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I just pick a carb rebuild kit and its a walker (15668a) that they crossed over from the 929a hygrade number, and I was wondering if you've seen this kit or worked with this kit? Its got the right gaskets but I don't see the power valve or the acc pump? Its mainly got gaskets, needle and seat, and some rubber washers. You can't open it or they want take it back. Does a person need to replace the power valve? Cheap explains itself most of the time. The hygrade kit was @$40.00 and this was around $20.00, but I could get it and hygrade was going to be@ week?
I think the rubber plunger for the acc pump is in there but I've always seen a kit withacc pump included in the kit.
 
Don't know anything about a walker kit for these carbs.

The accel pump in these kits is just a polymer cup, you re-use the metallic components after cleaning.

The power valve is a critical element,...you are correct that many of the knock-off kits don't contain either one or both of the designs...that is the reason I use only the standard hygrade 929a on these carbs, it has all the correct parts needed.
 
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I rebuilt my carb this weekend and it's a good thing I did? I got the 929a carb with the power valve and that turned out to be good; because, the pv(power valve) in the carb was totally froze so I know it would've never started in the first place. Man, thats a simple carb and I reaaly liked it. Question? There a tag on the drivers side of the intake manifold that carb return spring is held by and it has 345 stamped on it and I was wondering if this telling me its a 345 motor? I haven't found the one on the side of the motor yet. Also; anybody got a picture showing the timing marks on the crank? I found the one on the damper and I put it in the middle of the marker but its so dirty I couldn't see the marks on it? I hope to get it fired up sometime this week! Ihave to pre-oil the oil pump and get a temp. Gas tank and I'm ready I hope. One thing the motor felt like its got a lot of compression I hope this a good sign when it's all said and done.
 
A tag? Does this have an auto trans? Could you be referring to the lever that links the carb to the kickdown rod? Those are stamped with engine sizes, but that doesn't necessarily identify your engine.
The graduated scale of timing indicators is right there behind the crank hub. If you've found the indexed Mark on the hub, you're an inch away from the scale. It's munged over with decades of guapo is all.
You've been turning this engine over before the pre-oil? :yikes:
 
I just been bumping the engine to get #8 on tdc, no constant grinding. I don't remember a rod connected to the plate? The plate is right below the carb on the drivers side intake manifold and the carb return spring is hooked to it? It looks aluminum and its connected to the side of the runner on the intake manifold?

Is tdc in the middle of the degrees plate or at the beginning? There's about 43 years of gunk on the motor. I was going to clean the motor when I brought it home with rest of the truck but the latch was stuck so I was only about to clean the outside. If I ever get it running I'm going to go clean the motor real good.
 
Here is a shot of mine, '76 terra 345. There is seven marks with numbers from the driver to pass side of 5 0 10 20. Painting them with the wifes nail polish only kinda worked (her idea :ihih: )
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Whether you rotate the crankshaft by hand, or just "bump" it with the starter, that will still destroy cam bearings if the dreaded "stiction" disease has occurred! You must create some oil flow to all lube points before attempting to rotate the crankshaft at all!

The "l" bracket you describe for the throttle return spring anchor does indeed "sometimes" have "345" stamped on for an id point...but not for identifying which engine per se. And not all of those anchors are stamped with any designation.

That anchor has to do with a change in intake manifold/carburetor list number, and throttle lever actuation as those motors were installed in various platforms over time. There were two distinctly different intake manifolds used with those engines, many have been mixed and matched due to po virus. The anchor was not used on earlier vehicles since they had a totally different throttle actuation system and return spring setup.

When the egr 2v manifold for the 345 was intro'd on the light line stuff, the manifold and carb redesign came about, along with a shift to a cable operated throttle lever...that is when that spring anchor began to appear. And, keep in mind, these engines were used in hundreds of non-motor vehicle apps also with all kinds of carburetor variations. That anchor might have originated as a "tractor" or "ag division" part originally for a combine or tractor as those apps used somewhat different numbers for basically the same part id as compared to the "motor truck" side of the bizz.

I find those same spring anchors used on both 304 and 392 motors also, they are just a "part", nothing significant. Most of 'em have no numbers stamped in.

Phillip posted a nice pic of the sv (and I-4) engine timing grid. Looking at his pic...the zero point denotes tdc on #8 cylinder for either the compression stroke or the exhaust stroke. The "5" tik Mark above the zero point denotes "five degrees after tdc. Below the zero point in the pic, you see the grid denoting 5 degree increments before tdc.

Why does the hash Mark on the crank hub/balancer reference cylinder #8???? Simple...the I-4/sv motor balance scenario originally used a "crank hub", not a "harmonic balancer". What we call a "mutton chop" hub or a "cutaway" hub.

Due to the crank throw indexing and the way the engines were balanced, there is nothing but air on the hub when #1 cylinder is at tdc on the compression stroke! No place to stamp a timing Mark!

The "harmonic balancer" system was phased in on some 345 engines over time, and also used exclusively on the 392 version. But look at the harmonic balancer...it still has the "mutton chop" segment behind the vulcanized hub.

If ya go to this link:

http://www.forums.IHPartsAmerica.com/gas-engine-tech/1144-ultimate-IH-fourbanger.html

And look at post #37, you will see a pic of a "crank hub", that one is matched to one dedicated 152 rotating assembly, the balance drillings are evident. That exact same "raw" hub was used for 196,266, 304, and "some" 345 apps over the years...but...each one was drilled for it's mating engine assembly. Ya don't mix and match these parts or swap 'em around without expecting engine balance to go to hell. The hub in that pic is actually going onto a 196 crankshaft as part of a stroker engine build. Once all the parts are gathered and the block is bored to the pistons we're gonna use, then the entire rotating assembly will be balanced along with the clutch and flywheel set that's going behind it.
Yeah...they could have designed a totally different "system" for the crank hub/balancer...but why reinvent the wheel for an engine where by the mid-1970's the entire focus was on making 'em meet emissions and reducing manufacturing costs across the board. IH mechanics had been used to working from #8 tdc since day one, who gave a shit about that, if you were "trained" ya just knew this stuff!

Same way ya know that the timing Mark on the IH sixbangers is on the flywheel, hidden behind a flap or plug in the forward portion of the bellhousing! Same reason the distributors used on many of those sixers have a timing grid incorporated into the distributor mounting system!
 
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Well thanks everybody and hopefully I didn't do much damage to the bearings? I've been trying to be careful. If it wasn't for bad luck I'd have no luck at all.:icon_sad:
 
Down to the end! Got the oil primed,dizzy pulled and back in, gb installed, ans temporary gas tank on! Now a few more questions?

I have a red wire and (3) three black wire coming out of wire loom? Where do these wire connect? I think they go to the coil but I'm not sure which ones and were? Pictures would be great and any help, too. I'm ready to hear this thing run or die which ever comes first is fine with me. Also; on the dizzy does matter whick wires from the dizzy is connected to the yellow wire in the wire loom?

Sorry for so many question, but the guy who helps me won't be around for a week or so and I want to hear now!!
 
This is the underhood portion of the schematic for a gold box ignition-equipped Scout II.

The wiring for this system is completely different as compared to the breaker point ignition system or the prestolite ignition system that many Scout II rigs were equipped with.

Don't go jerking around on wires and hooking up stuff without using this schematic, otherwise you will most likely fry your existing gold box amplifier and fry the hall effect trigger inside the distributor.

The ignition coils that are a proper match for the Holley breaker point system, the Holley gold box system, and the prestolite system (both point type and the electronic version) are all the same. It must have a primary resistance value in the range of 1.4>1.8ohms.
 

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The guy I bought it from had a new coil in the glove box and its the kind that has built internal resistor built-in the coil itself but theres not box with it; so, how can I tell if its 1.4.1.8 ohms coil? I bought a new gb so I want to be careful. Heres a picture of the wires I took I don't figure anybody can make sence.
 

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I must be wearing everybody out, sorry. One more ?. Is the a-1/cardone distributor 30-44824 use the gb(gold box) or is it a self contained dizzy? I can't find the specs on a1's site?
 
With all leads d/c'd from the coil, set your dvom to measure resistance in ohms. Touch the - probe to the - coil terminal and the + to +. What's the number? Betcha it's @ 3.2 ohm. If it's 1.4 to 1.8 like mm sez, it's a gud'n and I'll cover my face in aygs yet agin. As mm had to hammer into my thick haid some time ago, all coils will have some internal resistance value, just some more than others. Don't get cornfused by the scribblin' on the can.
 
Trever is one of many folks around here that have gone through this "coil resistance" tapdance.

This thread explains the sitch in a nutshell:

http://www.forums.IHPartsAmerica.com/ignition-tech/852-hot-coil.html?highlight=primary+resistance

If you do a search in the ignition sub-forum, you will find posts that have all the common aftermarket ignition coil parts numbers that will work. It just so happens that all the v8 engine applications for the Scout II, no matter which ignition system is present, use the same coil!!! If all else fails, find a good coil for any GM v8 engine app from 1962 thru the end of the breaker-point distributor era (around 1974 in most cases. Those are exactly the same spec as the coil used with the IH v8 stuff. You must always use your ohmmeter to confirm proper primary resistance though, even on a new coil.

The harness that runs down the top/passenger side of the engine and contains multiple wire runs has several un-used terminations, that is totally dependent upon which engine/choke system/ignition system/etc. Is installed in the chassis at the original point of manufacture.

That is why I supplied you with the schematic...you must determine what to connect on your application. You must use a correct specification ignition coil or damage to the electronics in the electronic ignition system will result!

No doubt you May have wire runs, splices, "repairs", workarounds done during previous attempts to bring this particular vehicle to life. If you found a wrong coil in the stash, then obviously someone else has messed with this in the past that did not know what they were doing, that is perfectly normal when dealing with this junkiron!

In most cases, the oem harness contained every wire run for every variation, of any engine/transmission combination that was offered. But only the specific terminations were connected to whatever peripheral was actually included with the specific "option" power unit.

The a-1 cardone p/n you posted plainly states in the cardone lookup that it is a prestolite electronic distributor. That is not the one which matches your application.

The cardone 44450 is a gold box unit (Holley).
 
I'm thinking the extra wires May be for 4x4 lite and things like that? I'll chase the wires down and go from there. I was going to do away with gb by using the 30-44824 dizzy? Will this work or will I need something else besides the dizzy to make it work. I probilly need to put pretronics in there and forget it? What pertronics number would I need to put in the Holley dizzy and were is the link on how to install one?
 
I'll get a good coil 1.4.1.8 first thing. Is the resistor that little round thing that sits on top of the coil in the coil bracket? I'll have to find one of them. You can see the lil buggar in the picture up above where I show the wires. I'm goin get there and I lest the son-beach will be right. I friggin hate shade tree machanics.
 
The item in question is a radio noise supressor and totally unnecessary. Most folks shit can 'em. The needed total resistance value can be accomplished in several ways.

1. Insulated resistor wire of pre-determined length running from the key switch to the coil plus the proper internal resistance of the coil itself.

2. Standard awg wire running from key switch to a fire wall mounted porcelain ballast resistor of the appropriate value then to the coil + terminal plus the proper internal resistance of the coil.

Or

3. The ignition coil itself provides the proper resistance value with no additional external resistance necessary.

In every case, the total value is the most important thing. The methodology for achieving it depends on the specific ignition components of the vehicle. Do be sure to test the coil you have now to determine what the primary resistance is before buying another one. Hopefully now you're thoroughly confused about all this resistance mumbo jumbo. Now Mike can come in clean up all the dirty laundry as usual.
 
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Scoutboy
the proper ingnition coil? Is that one that has the built-in resistor? How can I test the wires I have shown in the picture to find which wire is the resistance wire? I read the hot coil post and mick said it need sto be @66" to 70" long? Mike which wire am I looking for on the diagram you gave me? I can run everything down from the diagram?
 
Okay, lets see if I can now undo some of the damage I did here.
Clearly I've got you totally confused and I apologize for that. In my previous post I was merely outlining the different ways in which proper resistance is often achieved in given vehicles.
You're '76 model doesn't incorporate a resistor wire, so you're not going to find one.
Once again...all ignition coils have some amount of internal resistance. Even ones that don't say so on the outside of the can. That's why measuring the resistance is important to determine the value of any coil you might be dealing with. That's how you tell if it's the proper coil for your application. I hope this clears it up some.
 
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