IHC Vehicle Distributor Identification

[Michael Mayben]

after searching the napa website I found a cap and rotor for the 4000 series dizzy at a etter price than a/z or adv/ or orielly. The picture shows the cap to have brass male studs and the rotor appears exactly as in the previous pics on here. The p/n are as follows
cap mpe al162sb $7.69
rotor mpe al163sb $6.29

these appear to be as the site says a high quality yet economical oem replacement. They damn sure beat the other guys aluminum studded caps and chinese rotor. According to the guy at napa they are manufactured in the usa by echlin.
Whats your 2 cents on this m/m

The "mpe" designation is the echlin "value" or second line. I believe you will find if ya compared the top end parts, the plastic is somewhat thinner and is a different compound.

As to performance, if it fits snuggly and indexes correctly, no doubt it willwork ok, but May not last as long.

Go to a store and look at one...if the contactors "wiggle" or appear to be loose in any fashion, don't waste the coin.

Ya git what ya pay for.

I hate the napa website/lookups. If I'm forced to comparison shop or want to confirm stuff in the napa lookup that is suspicious, I use these sites:

d&m auto parts

And:

6.4 l 392 cid v8 government open market (opm) - gov't open market - capitol supply, inc.

 

[Eric VanBuren]

As micheal noted the mpe prefix designates their price brand. It will not have brass contacts it will be aluminum. As of aprox nov 09 napa changed their supplier of their value line from an undisclosed supplier (quite possibly from china) to the price line from standard. The stuff in the echlin box is standard's premium line, and has been for many years.

Since the mileage plus electrical line is from an undisclosed source(s) that doesn't produce their own "picture book" napa just uses the pics supplied by standard and will not necessarily be representative of the actual product.

Drop the prefix and suffix and you'll get the premium parts supplied by standard, made in usa or canada, with brass contacts, in the echlin box. Those are high quality parts and worth the extra cost for anything you plan to keep.

 

[towpainter3]

Aight, I'm a firm believer in gettin what ya pay for! But I also do .alot of comparison shoppin. Hell ya got to nowadays. I already have a cap that was on an engine I have here. And guess what it think it was the wrong app.
The dizzy in ths 79 I have here is steel or cast. Im sayin this due to the fact it has rust on the outside. But it is electronic. I think. It only has 2 or maybe 3 wires coming out of the side. Not real sure as im in the house . But if my pornagraphic memory serves me right I think its that way. I'll pull it and lokk at the pics earlier in the thread.

 

[Eric VanBuren]

The dizzy in ths 79 I have here is steel or cast. Im sayin this due to the fact it has rust on the outside. But it is electronic.

It May just look rusty from a previous coolant leak that sprayed it with rusty water and stained it.

 

[1fatman]

Thanks to all yall out there helping out on the tech , holy smokes talk about info.. My question is this? Thanxs to the picts an posts I have I.d.'d the diz az an prestolite breaker point ,, 75 sct 2 v8 not sure if 304 or 345 yet , am I missing it , is there a post I didn't see , ? Can anyone hit me with the point gap spec's please, 2 morrow I pick up the right stuff to start . Yes I got the frikinp.o. Blues........ Cheap ass Holley replacement parts on my presto lite, thanx again .. Love IHOnly...very greatfull for this site.. Proud member.......help my hillbilly ass... 1fatman.

 

[Michael Mayben]

thanks to all yall out there helping out on the tech , holy smokes talk about info.. My question is this? Thanxs to the picts an posts I have I.d.'d the diz az an prestolite breaker point ,, 75 sct 2 v8 not sure if 304 or 345 yet , am I missing it , is there a post I didn't see , ? Can anyone hit me with the point gap spec's please, 2 morrow I pick up the right stuff to start . Yes I got the frikinp.o. Blues........ Cheap ass Holley replacement parts on my presto lite, thanx again .. Love IHOnly...very greatfull for this site.. Proud member.......help my hillbilly ass... 1fatman.

A single point prestolite distributor is id'd in posts #7 and #8 of this thread.

The breaker point gap/dwell for the prestolite is the same as for most an v8 breaker point ignition system...nominal 0.015">0.017" or 28*>32*. 0.016" and 30* is the target I always shoot for.

 

[dumptruck]

Hello michael and y'all, still trying to get fossilized chunk of metal, rubber and fiberglass resembling 1975 loadstar 1600 to breath fire. Have provisionally installed holly 2200c carb rebuilt by michael (industrial art) without spacer or electronically actuated governor/throttle body. Have determied that engine is a 345 # 1180717. Distributor looks to me (unreliable source) to be holly 1510 according to pics on this site. The distributor part # (obtained with mirror, magnifying glass, hat, led flashlight and sun at the right place in the sky) appears to be and International harvestor number 427908 c91l.

Here is the 1st question. I purchased a petronix ignitor kit # 1481 but am not sure it is the right kit. The round black piece containing the magnets slides down the rotor shaft but does not click, lock or turn into place and the rotor when replaced doesn't seem to lock it in either. It's not as if there is lots of play between the magnet piece and the shaft but even with the rotor on you can readily turn the magnet piece independent of the shaft turning. Is it supposed to just sit there like that ? I realize there is not much centrifigul force at the center of a merry go round but ? Is it the wrong kit. Thanks

 

[Michael Mayben]

If the distributor is a 1510 Holley (aluminum body with breaker points), then the ignitor 1481 is correct.

The "late" versions of that kit have a two piece magnet ring conversion. A plastic "washer" about 1/4" thick and then the magnet ring. The earlier version had only a one piece magnet ring and will not use the plastic washer/spacer.

If you have the version with the plastic spacer, place it on top of the point cam first, then push the magnet ring down over the point cam completely, the inside of the new magnet ring is slightly octagonal in shape, that lines up exactly with the lobes on the point cam and push down hard until the magnet ring seats completely on the point cam. The magnet ring is then seated and will be driven firmly by the point cam.

If you do not have the pertronix version with the spacer, then just do the same with the magnet wheel, push all the way down over the point cam, then the distributor rotor will go right back in place just like it had points.

If yours has a black, brown, or opaque/white "dust shield" to protect the breaker points, then do not use that part, set it aside for someone else who needs one, it will not work with the pertronix conversion!

 

[dumptruck]

if the distributor is a 1510 Holley (aluminum body with breaker points), then the ignitor 1481 is correct.

If you do not have the pertronix version with the spacer, then just do the same with the magnet wheel, push all the way down over the point cam, then the distributor rotor will go right back in place just like it had points.

If yours has a black, brown, or opaque/white "dust shield" to protect the breaker points, then do not use that part, set it aside for someone else who needs one, it will not work with the pertronix conversion!

I have the early version which went on fine once I was armed with the knowledge that the ring was "slightly" octagtonal and that you had to push "hard" to get it to stretch enough to snap down over the point cam. I will forward you the opaque dust cover along with some other "extras" at some point when I'm finished.

Question # 2. Installed and gapped the box and ran the wires out through the grommet. Does red wire the attach directly to the positive side of the coil? I ran a test which indicates there May be a ballast resistor or resistance wire somewhere in the system. But I am clueless as to where. I have a new petronix coil with an internal resistor can I just install that, wire the red side of the ignitor directly to the positive side of the coil and not worry about looking for any ballast or resistor wire. My problem with electricity is you can't see it. Thank you again.

 

[Michael Mayben]

I have the early version which went on fine once I was armed with the knowledge that the ring was "slightly" octagtonal and that you had to push "hard" to get it to stretch enough to snap down over the point cam. I will forward you the opaque dust cover along with some other "extras" at some point when I'm finished.

Question # 2. Installed and gapped the box and ran the wires out through the grommet. Does red wire the attach directly to the positive side of the coil? I ran a test which indicates there May be a ballast resistor or resistance wire somewhere in the system. But I am clueless as to where. I have a new petronix coil with an internal resistor can I just install that, wire the red side of the ignitor directly to the positive side of the coil and not worry about looking for any ballast or resistor wire. My problem with electricity is you can't see it. Thank you again.

The red wire out of the p-tron goes to coil positive. The black wire goes to coil negative.

The ignition feed to the coil positive terminal is indeed a "resistor" wire, it's between 68" and 72" in length and has a resistance factor of approximate 1.8ohms.

It's very common to find that wire has gone "open" due to heat inside the loom where the wire is nested. In that case, the engine will start but will not run after the key switch is released and the coil switches over to the "run" circuit with the resistor wire. We find these vehicles all the time that have had a ceramic ballast resistor added to compensate for the failure of the resistor wire, again, the ballast resistor value needs to be 1.4>1.8 ohms for a v8 distributor/coil with breaker points.

The pertronix coil should not have an "internal resistor", they don't supply a unit like that. However, it does have a primary resistance of a nominal 1.4>1.8 ohms, same as the oem coil used on your truck and is common for any v8 engine with breaker points.

The pertronix conversion can be used with the oem resistance wiring for the coil. However, it works best with a plain old switched b+ feed to the coil positive terminal. All this holds true only for the pertronix conversion and not any other form of a breakerless distributor upgrade. Each manufacturer of those items has their own specification for wiring.

 

[77 Traveler]

Pictures of Holley straight point distributor

this was traded in on a reman Holley curved point distributor which I installed a petronix kit on. My Scout has never ran better than now after rebuilding the carb and the ignition upgrade. This site has been a great help.

 

[Michael Mayben]

Thanks for posting the pics 77!!! Great shots that really tell the story!

The straight point distributor works just fine as long as the plastic insulator is not cracked/distorted which occurs over time. When that happens it's impossible to keep the dwell set and the vacuum advance movement becomes erratic or simply "sticks".

Other than the breaker plate system and the dedicated vacuum advance (we have re-manufactured advance canisters is stock now), the distributors are identical to the later Holley/IH 1510 sparkers and can be converted. The straight point units can also be used as a core for a mag trigger conversion but require some additional work to do so.

 

[ornelles]

thanks to monte and his fil ron, I was able to add to the distributor collection here at binder u. So we can continue updating this thread.

This a prestolite idn-4000 series electronic distributor. These units were phased into light line vehicle production towards the end of the m/y '77 production run. However, they commonly May be found in "retrofit" applications on any I-4, sv, mv, lv engine application, sometimes as a replacement for the Holley 1530 gold box system.

Easily identified due to the use of the male cap terminals, the "square" section design of the body below the cup, and the removable portion of the vacuum advance assembly which retains the calibration spring.

The white wire found in the harness pigtail is used as part of the emissions-related dtm system on some vehicles, and has nothing to do with actual distributor operation. In many applications that wire is simply hanging and not connected to anything.

These are outstanding sparkmakers!

I found one of these distributors in my pile of parts, no gold box or anything else is needed? Will a high output coil improve this distributor? What kind of upgrades to other components would you recommended for optimizing this distributor set up?

Thanks for any help on this.

 

[Michael Mayben]

All electronics (including the amplifier) are built into the prestolite idn distributor variations. The electronics are underneath the breaker plate assembly.

Those are outstanding distributors, but if the amplifier takes a hike, then they are very expensive to repair. Service parts are readily available (including electronic guts) for those units.

There is no benefit in changing to any other coil to use with that distributor. The oem coil (same as used with breaker points) is capable of producing in excess of 20kv when used with that distributor and that upper limit will never be bumped on a basically stock engine. That system is inductive, and as such, the coil produces only the voltage needed at any one firing opportunity to ionize the plug gap. On average, that is a nominal 4kv>7kv on a new fresh sparkplug and around 10>12kv on a typical plug with say 10k miles of service on it.

Say you mounted a msd "blaster" coil on that engine with that distributor. The "turn ratio" of that msd part provides a theoretical upper limit of around 30kv (only 10kv greater than stock). But again, that engine will never see the need for that kind of "voltage available" unless you open the plug gap up to over 0.100" which is totally stupid!

 

[ornelles]

Okay, thats some good news there! Another question I thought of was this distributor came off my 78 345, will it need or even can it be re calibrated for use on the 72 392 with the comp cam in it or is it just plug and play

 

[Michael Mayben]

okay, thats some good news there! Another question I thought of was this distributor came off my 78 345, will it need or even can it be re calibrated for use on the 72 392 with the comp cam in it or is it just plug and play

Any "emissions" distributor could benefit by having it recurved by someone who specializes in this business. It is not difficult to do, but is best done on a machine made for that purpose and performed by someone who has access to various springs, small parts, etc. For doing this work.

But in order to simply run the motor once you have it going, simply install the prestolite and wire it properly. We've posted the wiring information around here time and again!

There is bound to be an old time garage or speed shop in anchorage that does this stuff using a distributor machine. If not, then contact philbin electric in portland, or...they are on the 'net and great folks to deal with.

 

[farmerbob]

Brand new to this forum so please excuse me if I'm not doing this right. I have been viewing this site as a visitor and have found that there is a lot of IH experienced people here so I have become a member.
I have a question regarding an International distributor that I need help answering. I would like to identify my distributor/ingition system in my 1977 IH loadstar w/446 engine.
I have been having trouble with no spark after the engine is warm and must cool off before it will run again.
The numbers on the distributor are : 446918-c92 0467
I am enclosing pictures of the dist. And control electronics.
The IH dealer in my area says there are no parts available for it so I either need to find parts or convert it to one of the petronics systems?? Can anyone point me in the right direction.

[/img]

Bob's photo album

 

[Michael Mayben]

Welcome to ihon Bob, we accept all customers/members and if we can't help ya we'll send ya to folks that can!

I'm not really familiar with your exact vehicle at all, but it does share many components/systems with the stuff that we are intimately familiar with.

The distributor/ignition system you have is a Holley gold box electronic unit, from your picture in your album it appears that it is the version with both a tachometer drive and the segment used to operate an engine governor (in conjunction with the carburetor).

However, your "gold box" is most likely not "gold" in color but is either black or silver. The "gold" cover amplifiers were used in the light line applications, black or silver in medium duty apps. We have "gold" amplifiers available here new, but not the black or silver versions.

However, I'd recommend the exact path you have suggested...convert the unit to a pertronix trigger which eliminates the need for the amplifier at all. And...your same ignition coil will work just fine.

The condition you describe fits the failure mode of the amplifier exactly...over time heat finally kills 'em.

So...which pertronix? The pertronix application guide/catalog is very ambiguous in this regard as the only listing they show for a mv 404/446 is for the prestolite electronic distributor...that is incorrect in your case!

The correct pertronix conversion for your distributor would be the one that is specific for the gold box system...pertronix p/n ho-181.

I've attached a .pdf of the distributor technical specifications for your distributor based upon the part number you referenced. Ihc refers to that particular model distributor as a "1530" whether used with the tach drive/governor or not. 1530 identifies it as a Holley electronic trigger (hall effect), and all variations of this distributor are covered in depth in the IH master service manual for all these vehicles, cts 2300 which is around 3,000 pages in depth!

 

[farmerbob]

Thank you so much for the information.
Reading this forum I knew I was onto something, seeing the years of experience from both the moderator and guests.
My hunch was correct.
Great site!!!!

 

[farmerbob]

Hello techies again,
purchased and installed a pertronics ignition in my Holley distributor and it works great... While installing it I noticed that the vacuum advance canister does not work.
I have read on this forum that there is someone that re-builds them but does not specify who.
So, my question is whom and where?
Thank you for your help in advance!
Bob in ohio