Holley 22XX Series Carb Stuff

michael mayben said:
...eliminating the egr is an off road deal only (that's legal beagle-speak). It's not imperative that it's done, but is an "enhancement" for performance/drivability. Let's let it go at that! That carb does include a "ported" vacuum source that can operate the egr if a "tee" fitting is placed on the port. That is assuming your egr valve/system still actually works...that's a whole other story! That is the port on the passenger side of the metering block...
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I have never been able to get the egr to work correctly (like it does with the 2210c carb installed) when running the #7448. The *ported* vacuum on the #7448 has something like 3" (in/hg) at idle. This is enough to *crack* the egr open at idle and cause rough running.

If I could locate an appropriate rpm-controlled electric vsv (vacuum switching valve), I might be able to get the egr to remain closed at idle and open at cruise rpms.

As for the two-stage power valve in the 2300 carb series: I installed one several years ago, with improved performance results. I drove around with a vaccum gauge and logged the results in order to choose the proper pv. I selected the Holley #125-208 with specs of 10.5" and 5.5".

Over the years, I've also modded my #7448 with an assortment of other goodies...
 
Erik,

many years ago, I recall my mechanic put a small plastic "canister" (3/8" x 3/4"?) in the vacuum line going to the egr valve.

I do not remember (way too long ago) why he put it on or what it is for -- I assume it "modifies" the "vacuum signal"......

I think it is still there, but I have not really paid attention.
 
robertc said:
erik,

many years ago, I recall my mechanic put a small plastic "canister" (3/8" x 3/4"?) in the vacuum line going to the egr valve.

I do not remember (way too long ago) why he put it on or what it is for -- I assume it "modifies" the "vacuum signal"......

I think it is still there, but I have not really paid attention.
Click to expand...

I actually tried a Ford-application inline vacuum delay device, but it didn't work. All it did was to delay the vacuum signal to the egr, but when the engine returned to idle, the ported vacuum still kept the egr cracked open.
 
Hey michael the 60448 p/n is not the one this gasket looks to be for a big 1 barrel or a carter or rochester 2 barrel. Way to small. Ive sent a request to the folks at the carb factory to see if they can help. I went the old chrysler route with the counter monkeys to no avail. About 30 mins of dumb looks was enough. If I find out anything ill post it. Also gonna check with my buddy at the local IH dealer. He's got a stack of those old parts counter catalogs that no one knows how to use anymore. Maybe they'll have a listing we need.
 
If the fp 60448 is incorrect, then the master reference is incorrect also.

Do ya want me ta make ya one? I cut those out of the inside of the pattern I use for the 5-1/8" air horns used on the Holley modular stuff. That way I get two-for-one and have a piece of material left over to make egr blocker gaskets. Very little waste material around here, even the small pieces of that 1/16" material I use to make Scout 80 and 800 fuel tank pickup tube gaskets!
 
Yes , I would appreciate that very much just let me know what I owe ya and I'll get it in the mail. Hopefully in the next little while I'll be able to find the correct p/n for these ive got my IH guy workin on it but sometimes he's slower than molasses in dec. The folks at the carb factory said they couldnt help either. Let me know where to send ya my address and I'll get it to ya thanks again brad
 
I also am interested in photos or diagrams of the vacuum hoses for a '76 with a 345 and 2210c if anyone might be able to help.
 
Sorry I missed this tow!

Send me your snailmail addy to:

rodelizrd@gmail

and I'll send it right out!
 
Welcome to the forum beastud!

Is your application a "CA" model or 49 states?? And I can only "assume" ya mean a Scout II???

Please confirm, I'll see what I can do for ya.
 
Hey michael ,got the gasket and other stuff you included today. Gasket fits perfectly / after I traced it out on some pattern material I have. / will check out the disc later today ,and thanks for the decals. Gonna save em till I get the ol girl a new paint job which is comin soon. Once again thanks. Brad
 
Thought ya might need sum satidy nite entertainment, thus the dvd! That's our bubba dave the gear man entertaining our club at a monthly meeting last November regarding the subject of "IH engine balance"!

And that info (and dave's continued presence at our nightly dinner hour!) has shore come in handy for me just recently regarding my project to document various IH-related flywheel configs!

At our next monthly meeting of IHSTO on nov. 6, dave is gonna ejumakate us regarding "gears"!
 
I too am interested in the vacuum diagrams of the 2210c. I am having a few issues with my carb I think... I recently purchased a remaned 2210c for my '74 345/auto because when I got the truck there was just some random carb on there to make it run. My problem right now is that when I start the truck it takes a little to warm up and idle, but when it is idleing and I put it into gear the truck rpm's die out and the truck dies. So I am beginning to think that I have a vacuum issue. Any suggestions? I am new at this so sorry if I ask redundant questions.
-chris
 
Welcome chris, you've come to the right place there is alot of knowledge here.
I will start with a couple of questions, what is the climate where you live, is this a cold weather starting problem?
Do you have access to a vacuum guage?
We could be looking at a simple choke adjustment.
There is some real experts here and I don't want to just throw out suggestions without some more details.

Again welcome;
ron
 
We never heard back from beastud regarding the last bit of interrogation I posed so I could send him the correct vacuum hose layout for his application!

This layout is for 49 state model 304 and 345, both Scout II and fullsize (the model differences are noted on the diagram).

And...have you verified that the entire ignition system is up to snuff first??? If not, then do that and see what happens.

As ron mentioned, proper choke setup on these strangulated, superlean emissions rigs is very important, since the po botched the oem carb, what did he/she/it do about the choke setup?

The oem choke system for that combo you have is a "divorced" design, so the choke stove must be present and operational in the intake manifold, the link from the stove to the choke lever must be installed and "adjusted", and the choke pulloff must be operational and adjusted also. The choke must work correctly for proper cold start no matter what the climatic conditions, and it must also pull off correctly as the choke stove reaches full warm position and keep the choke plate open after warmup

the m/y 1974 was a pivotal point not only for IH but all oem light duty vehicle manufacturers as the federal and cal emissions specs created some real challenges drivability-wise.
 

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I live in oklahoma so most of the time it is hot, but it does get cold on some days. I do not have access to a vacuum gauge, can I rent one somewhere?
In regards to micheal. I am not sure if my ignition system is up to snuff. The wiring is all new, my starter could be going bad or my solenoid because of another issue I'm facing which is that when the truck is hot and will shift fine in and out of gear,but then the truck then will not start untill it cools off.
I am not sure of my choke adjustment so I will need to check that. From that diagram of the vacuum system I can tell somethings are missing so I will check on that tomorrow if I get the chance.
 
Update. I decided to plug all of my vacuum lines excpet for the one to the choke, and the one to the distributor. Not sure if this is ok or not, but I think they are only used for emissions.
When I had it idleing if I punched the gas really fast while in neutral it would die same as when I put it in gear.
Got out started fiddling with the choke while it idled and then got out and tested putting it in gear and it worked fine shifting. Not sure that I did anything, but now makes me believe it is a choke adjustment issue. Any good places to help with choke adjustment?
 
ccg1004 said:
I live in oklahoma so most of the time it is hot, but it does get cold on some days. I do not have access to a vacuum gauge, can I rent one somewhere?
In regards to micheal. I am not sure if my ignition system is up to snuff. The wiring is all new, my starter could be going bad or my solenoid because of another issue I'm facing which is that when the truck is hot and will shift fine in and out of gear,but then the truck then will not start untill it cools off.
I am not sure of my choke adjustment so I will need to check that. From that diagram of the vacuum system I can tell somethings are missing so I will check on that tomorrow if I get the chance.
Click to expand...

Ambient temperature has nothing to do with proper carburetion regarding cold start or hot restart. A proper choke operation is imperative for drivability, not just for the "emissions" thang.

It's not imperative that you have a vacuum gauge for adjusting a carb, but it does make it much easier to diagnose leaks. A servicable shop-type vacuum gauge can be found at any auto parts for around $15. If ya don't know what your actual manifold vacuum is, then ya don't know if ya gotta leak (and no doubt you will find several leak points) as you describe the rig is infected with the po (previous owner) virus.

If you will post some nice, well-focused pics of all four sides of your carb installed on the engine, I can take a look and advise. I need to see detail in order to see what ya have now and if it's anywhere close to being correctly connected/installed.

Otherwise, it's a crapshoot as to what ya have...and what ya need.

If the ignition system is not in first class condition with ignition timing verified, then you are wasting time chasing carburetor-related issues.
 
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I seems to be working semi right now. It will shift into gear when it is cold. But now when it is in gear it misses so I figure it is timing. Any suggestions on a timing light? And is that the best way to time it?
 
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For a timing light, I would go to a sears store. I have not looked at timing lights in a long time. There are probably some pretty fancy ones on the market now.

Sv8 engines are timed on cylinder #8 (closest to firewall / pass side) as opposed to cylinder #1 on most engines.

For your current purpose - trying to get it to run / idle well - I would set it at the stock timing to start.

You need to check your manual. My t/a is timed at 0 / tdc, but I think the initial timing on scouts May be different.

Actually, before checking the timing, you should check the "point gap" on the points in the distributor (assuming it is a "points" distributor). Another tool at sears -- a dwell meter -- or you can do it the "old-fashioned" way with a feeler gauge.

Also, you should check the condition of the points / rotor, it May be time to put new points / rotor in; maybe even a new distributor cap.

You need to loosen the distributor -- bolt below the distributor housing with a "hold-down" bracket.

First check the timing (before "moving" the distributor). "find" the timing Mark on the pulley versus the "marked" timing numbers on the "block".

You do not move the distributor very much -- 1/4".

Move the distributor a little bit and see how the "Mark" has changed position. Then, rotate the distributor in the correct direction to "set" the "notch" on the pulley next to the desired value.

Timing slightly afffects idle speed, if your idle speed is real low -- below 500 rpm, I would adjust the idle speed up to 600 rpm. Once the timing is set correctly, then you can reset the idle speed to the correct rpm (600 - 700 rpm, I think).

Hth
 
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I replaced the rotor and points a little while ago. My point gap could be off because I used a feeler guage. I ordered a simple timing light and a dwell meter so when that gets here I'll be able to check everything better then my eyes and ears. Thank you for all your help so far because I have learned quite a bit. I'll let you know on the progress later next week.
-chris
 
Regarding the ignition system checkout chris, we need more info as to "which" ignition system you are dealing with! There are many possibilities and since the po virus infected this rig, there is no telling what system you are dealing with!

And just because the parts lists say a certain system was used, means nothing at this point in time, very few of these rigs are still "original". And the IH service manuals are full of mistakes, omissions, and discrepancies in this regard also. That information is more than 30 years old and the print versions were never actually "updated", that was done for the dealership by issuing replacement loose-leaf pages and "bulletins". Sometimes ....some of us have access to "some" of that info simply because we collect this kinda stuff, but there is no way to obtain a full set of "updates" unless the folks that control the publication of that data decide to make it available for sale.

My suggestion at this point is to review all the threads in the ignition forum here, you will learn how to identify what ya have, and how to diagnose/service also! And that forum is updated just as often as the others! In fact, I'll be throwing some new stuff up there today once I get all the pics lined out.

You will see that many folks "thought" they had carb issues, when in actuality the root problem was ignition-related. Thus making certain the ignition system is up to speed is imperative before touching the fuel system!

"base" ignition timing for a well-performing 304/345 running "regular" grade fuel will be between 6 and 10 degrees btdc at idle if the distributor is in good shape, some can tolerate as much as 12 degrees advance in base timing. That holds true for either a breaker point system or an electronic trigger system. That is not a "specification" from a service reference. "specs" were for verifying that the rig would meet "emissions" numbers when properly serviced, but do not necessarily mean that drivability was satisfactory! This is a very complicated issue for folks not trained in this type stuff.

A 392 motor can normally tolerate only 5>6 degrees of base timing on regular fuel.
 
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Hello all, where is a good place to start getting my 2210? Adjusted. I have just recently redone it but it was just my second carb rebuild and I didn't mess with much, just soaked and made sure everything moved nice and the float was replaced. I had removed the carb years ago because the float was not working correctly. I read this post as rebuilding so I am pretty confident I used the correct gasket and I am pretty close. It does start and run good, it just wants to stall on take off and idles higher when warm. I have replaced most of the vacuum lines. I think I am running it quite lean. I don't know where I started with the mix adjustment screws but then I turned them in until it was kinda starting to miss, then back out a half or so. I think.
Thanks
 
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Here is the "method" I have used in the past - by "ear".

Michael probably has a better / more scientific method.

With the engine off, slowly and lightly turn the idle mixture screws until they "bottom out". Then, turn both screws out 2 turns - some use 1 1/2 turns out.

Start the engine and let it warm up -- the idle speed should not be "high". If your vehicle will idle at 600 rpm (or even 500 rpm) -- that would be good.

Turn the screws in 1/2 turn and let engine adjust.

Then, turn the screws out 1/4 turn (or 1/8 turn) at a time -- letting the engine adjust / "catch up" for 10 - 15 seconds.

The rpm should increase very slightly with each "adjustment".

Repeat until the rpm decreases slightly.

The idle mixture adjustment screws should be set "just before" the "rpm drop".

Unfortunately, I think my "ear" is not good enough to do this anymore.

Fyi -- about the "miss". You should be able to turn the idle mixture adjustments screws in until the engine "dies".

Hth
 
Thanks Robert. If I remember correctly that is about what I did but I May have not done it correctly. I think I forgot to turn it out till just before idle decrease. I will do that. It idles good and slow while warming and at warm, but while driving around the city is when the idle wants to speed up. Maybe heat/vaporization issue. I am thinking the lean mixture May be vaporizing to much causing the faster idle. Thank you
 
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