Robert Kenney
Super Moderator
First look at a replacement drum for the big 6 RA. Have to report back after a test drive.
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To ALL forum users - As of late I have been getting quite a few private messages with questions about build ups here on the forum, or tech questions about your personal project. While I appreciate the interest, sending me a private message about these topics distracts from, and undermines the purpose of having a forum here. During the day I wear many hats as a small business owner-operator and I work tirelessly to provide the absolute best service possible to you, our valued customer. When I created this forum I rounded up some of the best minds I knew so that any tech question you might have could be asked and answered by either myself or one of my highly experienced moderators, this way the next time this same question is asked the answer can be easily found and utilized by the next IH enthusiast having the same question. This allows me the freedom to run the day to day operations of the business and minimize the impact to shipments and shop activities that these distractions can cause. It is of the up most importance for me to complete the daily tasks in order to best take care of you our customer, all the while providing you a forum to get the level advice and input you have come to expect and deserve from the premier IH shop in the country.
So with that I ask that anyone with a question about one of our build ups or a general tech question to please use the forum as it was intended. I am absolutely available by telephone to answer your questions as well but at times may direct you back to our website to better field your question or questions. Most other private messages I will be glad to answer for you.
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Jeff Ismail
Owner/Operator
1964 Travelall and 1967 Travelette All Wheel Drive's
- Thread starter Robert Kenney
- Start date
Robert Kenney
Super Moderator
Correct, Quite a bit of machining, and extra curricular activities on the first set.
Test drive will commence on this coming Sunday. I don't expect any difficulties. Will report back after the shake down.
Robert Kenney
Super Moderator
All buttoned up. Took her for a shake down drive. Have to say that it stops as well as any late model. Very nice pedal and low effort to bring to a quick stop. I think the hydraulics are set up to give to much proportional rear braking effort compared to the front. I might drop the rear wheel cylinder diameter by 1/8" to help that. I will wait till I drive it more before making the final decision.
One thing I will do before to much mileage is to have the drums trued. They need to be mounted to the hub and have the lug nuts torqued before trueing. The drums new out of the box were not round. One was .010" and the other was .015" bigger in diameter at 90 deg increments, when I indicated them in for machining. Probably should have done the trueing before mounting them, but I was anxious to test drive it.
One thing I will do before to much mileage is to have the drums trued. They need to be mounted to the hub and have the lug nuts torqued before trueing. The drums new out of the box were not round. One was .010" and the other was .015" bigger in diameter at 90 deg increments, when I indicated them in for machining. Probably should have done the trueing before mounting them, but I was anxious to test drive it.
jeff campbell
Active member
Have found that to. Be soo true in the past 40 years. Always had rotors and drums trued up when installing new 1s.even in larger trucks as well. That's why most shops always had a shoe grinding/sanding machine. To sand the brake shoes to a perfect fit for the drums. Still have the machine dad had in D-ship shop! Still works to.All buttoned up. Took her for a shake down drive. Have to say that it stops as well as any late model. Very nice pedal and low effort to bring to a quick stop. I think the hydraulics are set up to give to much proportional rear braking effort compared to the front. I might drop the rear wheel cylinder diameter by 1/8" to help that. I will wait till I drive it more before making the final decision.
One thing I will do before to much mileage is to have the drums trued. They need to be mounted to the hub and have the lug nuts torqued before trueing. The drums new out of the box were not round. One was .010" and the other was .015" bigger in diameter at 90 deg increments, when I indicated them in for machining. Probably should have done the trueing before mounting them, but I was anxious to test drive it.
We always have them trued as well. Just like you found they are never round so after pressing them on they get put on a lathe.
Robert Kenney
Super Moderator
I have some new seals on the way. Probably happen this weekend as long as the seals make it. Can repack the inner bearings too.
Robert Kenney
Super Moderator
All went well. Had the drum assemblies trued Saturday morning. I like driving it much more now. No more over spec thin drums. No more chasing the steering while braking hard. Nice hard smooth pedal. Definitely a good upgrade for the unobtainium rear drums.
Attachments
So now you have new rear drums that appear to be wider than the originals.
What did you use and how did you get them to fit?
I saw one picture of the drum with some extra holes drilled for the studs. How did you do that? How much meat was left in the center of the drum with all of the extra holes drilled in the center?
I would imagine braking has greatly improved.
I know that when I am hitched to my Avion 34V tri-axle that when I step on the brakes the extra six brake drums slow the old T-all down much faster than I can stop the T-all by itself. Without those six brake drums braking the T-all has a really hard time slowing, let alone stopping, the 34V.
What did you use and how did you get them to fit?
I saw one picture of the drum with some extra holes drilled for the studs. How did you do that? How much meat was left in the center of the drum with all of the extra holes drilled in the center?
I would imagine braking has greatly improved.
I know that when I am hitched to my Avion 34V tri-axle that when I step on the brakes the extra six brake drums slow the old T-all down much faster than I can stop the T-all by itself. Without those six brake drums braking the T-all has a really hard time slowing, let alone stopping, the 34V.
Robert Kenney
Super Moderator
I've posted what I am planning to post. All I can say is that it took a lot of time, engineering, and machining to put it together and if done incorrectly can lead to less than favorable outcomes. I can't accept the liability for posting more detail than has been posted. None of the pieces as they went into this are commercially available and need to be made.
Robert Kenney
Super Moderator
Now that the brakes are 120%, I am moving on to the drivetrain.
I want to replace all of the engine mounts to stop a rubbing/thumping issue that occurs while leaving from a stop. Also reseal this monster oil leaker.
Let me preface the following with this. I like the temperament of the 304, It has nice low to mid range grunt, and pulls OK at the end of the RPM range. The 2 barrel is intended to take full throttle at low rpm, and not fall on its face. That compromises upper end HP. If you have seen the published factory power curves where the engines are compared with and without dual exhaust, you can see that they respond well to flow improvements in stock trim. I would like to fully tap in to that while not effecting the low end performance one bit.
So I decided to just go through the engine, see what it needs and do it. Not sure if it will be stock, or "slightly" better than stock. Slightly better than stock to me is the smallest Comp or Isky cam that is available or a custom grind, mild compression increase, minor flow bench work, small 4 barrel carb and dual exhaust. Now beyond that I can't be certain what I may desire once the thing is apart in my shop.
Not totally off the table but not in the current plan are:
1) Stroke
2) Bore
3) Lightening the recip masses EG pistons and rods. (both custom units)
On 3 I've already done the leg work with my flailing 152 project.
On to the trans. I am fortunate to have the T34 factory installed in this truck. I've spent many many hours amassing replacement parts and part numbers to freshen it, including synchro clutches and other hard parts. The transfer case will suffer the same fate and get a freshening.
I also think I will tackle the cowl rust while the engine is out.
Stay tuned.
I want to replace all of the engine mounts to stop a rubbing/thumping issue that occurs while leaving from a stop. Also reseal this monster oil leaker.
Let me preface the following with this. I like the temperament of the 304, It has nice low to mid range grunt, and pulls OK at the end of the RPM range. The 2 barrel is intended to take full throttle at low rpm, and not fall on its face. That compromises upper end HP. If you have seen the published factory power curves where the engines are compared with and without dual exhaust, you can see that they respond well to flow improvements in stock trim. I would like to fully tap in to that while not effecting the low end performance one bit.
So I decided to just go through the engine, see what it needs and do it. Not sure if it will be stock, or "slightly" better than stock. Slightly better than stock to me is the smallest Comp or Isky cam that is available or a custom grind, mild compression increase, minor flow bench work, small 4 barrel carb and dual exhaust. Now beyond that I can't be certain what I may desire once the thing is apart in my shop.
Not totally off the table but not in the current plan are:
1) Stroke
2) Bore
3) Lightening the recip masses EG pistons and rods. (both custom units)
On 3 I've already done the leg work with my flailing 152 project.
On to the trans. I am fortunate to have the T34 factory installed in this truck. I've spent many many hours amassing replacement parts and part numbers to freshen it, including synchro clutches and other hard parts. The transfer case will suffer the same fate and get a freshening.
I also think I will tackle the cowl rust while the engine is out.
Stay tuned.
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Robert Kenney
Super Moderator
Update good and bad. So the bad first. 
Have not touched the 1200C as I said I was going to above. Not out of the question, but it seems like the IH gods have found it in their hearts, and threatened to grant me an other Scout 80 (not new to me and I'll explain later) in a box.................. Well kind of in a box,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ok some of it in boxes and on the floor or will be, could be on my floor soon, well some time soon............
I hate not knowing the facts. It's totally up to me to create the facts but things are in the way. 
Now to the good,,,,,,,,,, well kind of good.
Before all of this personal public IH exposure, before my 65' CS, I had a fairly low serial number(7000's) 61 Scout 80 that I played with and eventually tore apart in the interest of making it a nice example of a 61 scout 80. I had replaced all of the less than perfect front clip with perfect factory metal, (yes drilled out the spot welds and rosette welded them back in) and accomplished 99% of the body work including long blocking the heavy primer to paintable condition. Rebuilt the T90 and T18, swapped in a tapered axle dana 44 in the rear, and did a very sketchy spring over. I had collected hundreds of spare parts some NOS (when they were cheap).
Then along came the offer of my 65 CS and at a price I couldn't refuse. I only had room for one so I sold off the 61 to a fellow employee for peanuts and that included the spare parts that did not cross over to my 65.
I'm going to start a new post on the 61 so follow the rest of this there. if you are interested.
Long story short, I will need my truck to continue to be active in it's current state for a while and also I need to sell a car that I only purchased as an investment. It is only lacking mounting new Goodyear Blue Streak tires before it is off to the block. Until the 61 is close to completion the 1200c will stay as my primary truck.
Have not touched the 1200C as I said I was going to above. Not out of the question, but it seems like the IH gods have found it in their hearts, and threatened to grant me an other Scout 80 (not new to me and I'll explain later) in a box.................. Well kind of in a box,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ok some of it in boxes and on the floor or will be, could be on my floor soon, well some time soon............
I hate not knowing the facts. It's totally up to me to create the facts but things are in the way. Now to the good,,,,,,,,,, well kind of good.
Before all of this personal public IH exposure, before my 65' CS, I had a fairly low serial number(7000's) 61 Scout 80 that I played with and eventually tore apart in the interest of making it a nice example of a 61 scout 80. I had replaced all of the less than perfect front clip with perfect factory metal, (yes drilled out the spot welds and rosette welded them back in) and accomplished 99% of the body work including long blocking the heavy primer to paintable condition. Rebuilt the T90 and T18, swapped in a tapered axle dana 44 in the rear, and did a very sketchy spring over. I had collected hundreds of spare parts some NOS (when they were cheap).
Then along came the offer of my 65 CS and at a price I couldn't refuse. I only had room for one so I sold off the 61 to a fellow employee for peanuts and that included the spare parts that did not cross over to my 65.
I'm going to start a new post on the 61 so follow the rest of this there. if you are interested.
Long story short, I will need my truck to continue to be active in it's current state for a while and also I need to sell a car that I only purchased as an investment. It is only lacking mounting new Goodyear Blue Streak tires before it is off to the block. Until the 61 is close to completion the 1200c will stay as my primary truck.
Robert Kenney
Super Moderator
Travelette update. The OG 304 continues to run like a top and despite my constant whipping and boot heels to the ribs, it is a very reliable rig. Still leaks oil but what IH doesn't.
The disk brakes are phenomenal! they work flawlessly. I have driven this thing as hard as I could. Stops straight and effortlessly. I have leaned on them hard enough to have thermal issues show by now.
I wish they were easier to reproduce. With time and money, I am sure I could create a kit at a reduced cost but just have to many irons in the fire to do much else.
The disk brakes are phenomenal! they work flawlessly. I have driven this thing as hard as I could. Stops straight and effortlessly. I have leaned on them hard enough to have thermal issues show by now.
I wish they were easier to reproduce. With time and money, I am sure I could create a kit at a reduced cost but just have to many irons in the fire to do much else.
Rob Gojkovich
Member
If you can come up with a decent kit I would definitely get those installed. At high speeds I tend to drive more defensively right now with the drums.
Robert Kenney
Super Moderator
Thought I'd tackle swapping out the some what bent tailgate with a nice one I had in the shop for severan years.. All was fine until removing the hinge plates. I should have remembered the 61 Scout.. I do now.
One side unscrewed with a little help gripping the chicken schizer slotted flat head screws.
The other side surrendered only after taking military action on it.
WOD to cut off the screw heads off. Lucky me the screws backed out some before failing the nut retainers. Drilled out the nut retainer spot welds.
I'll make a replacement nut plate.
One side unscrewed with a little help gripping the chicken schizer slotted flat head screws.
The other side surrendered only after taking military action on it.
WOD to cut off the screw heads off. Lucky me the screws backed out some before failing the nut retainers. Drilled out the nut retainer spot welds. I'll make a replacement nut plate.
Robert Kenney
Super Moderator
Made a drawing of the hinge plate nut plate, and made two just incase the easy side defects. I used 3/8 mild steel, I think anything above 1/4 would do but 5/16+ is best.
Blasted primed and painted the hinge plates.
I removed the latch parts from the old gate and began refurbishing them as much as possible. They are not in horrible condition, just dirty, and a few of the articulation step pins have loosened. I reset the coined ends to tighten them.
On the hand lever inside mechanism, the plate needs to be re-braze to the shaft. Should be easy if I could only find my brazing flux.
I have a question for anybody who has had their C series tailgate latches out, Did the spring loaded latch bars have a slight bend on the ends, just behind the tapered end? To me the bend looks deliberate and manufactured..
A photo of the latches, plates, and drawing are below.
Blasted primed and painted the hinge plates.
I removed the latch parts from the old gate and began refurbishing them as much as possible. They are not in horrible condition, just dirty, and a few of the articulation step pins have loosened. I reset the coined ends to tighten them.
On the hand lever inside mechanism, the plate needs to be re-braze to the shaft. Should be easy if I could only find my brazing flux.
I have a question for anybody who has had their C series tailgate latches out, Did the spring loaded latch bars have a slight bend on the ends, just behind the tapered end? To me the bend looks deliberate and manufactured..
A photo of the latches, plates, and drawing are below.
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Robert Kenney
Super Moderator
So still assembling the new tailgate. That should be complete this weekend and then to fab/install the gate drop arresting bars. I sourced nice originals, and NOS assist springs. The nut or whatever that the top shoulder bolt screws into on the bed is MIA. Probably make a round nut plate and rosette weld them in place. That should do it.
Now to the bad news or good news depending on which side of this you're on. I really need a modern full size 4 wheel drive truck. I have decided ( I think ) to sell the T-ette. I just don't want to dedicate two truck's worth of garage space.
It is a great truck and it has been my daily driver truck since I got it back into shape. Never let me down. but when it comes to hauling up and down the local mountains, in the snow and wanting to head up to Mammoth to sky or hike on a moments notice, with family, and or friends, it is not ideal. Life and it's hills and valleys sometimes dictate a course of action that may not be what we want.
We'll see how this works out but I'm fairly certain it'll be for sale soon.
Now to the bad news or good news depending on which side of this you're on. I really need a modern full size 4 wheel drive truck. I have decided ( I think ) to sell the T-ette. I just don't want to dedicate two truck's worth of garage space.
It is a great truck and it has been my daily driver truck since I got it back into shape. Never let me down. but when it comes to hauling up and down the local mountains, in the snow and wanting to head up to Mammoth to sky or hike on a moments notice, with family, and or friends, it is not ideal. Life and it's hills and valleys sometimes dictate a course of action that may not be what we want.
We'll see how this works out but I'm fairly certain it'll be for sale soon.
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Robert Kenney
Super Moderator
Tail gate progress update. Over all I'm happy with the outcome.
Nice to have the arresting linkage back in place and working properly. It took some massaging to straighten things out and replace the upper attach threads it was a worth wile project. And of course, photos.
Nice to have the arresting linkage back in place and working properly. It took some massaging to straighten things out and replace the upper attach threads it was a worth wile project. And of course, photos.