Starting issue

1976Travelall

1976Travelall

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So I'm racking my noggin trying to figure out where I F'ed up.... Im working my 67 Travelall 2 wheel drive with the 304 and a 2 barrel carb with the manual choke.... I switched from points to electronic, new fuel pump, water pump... So here's what's happening, she fires over and dies....that's it...I think I timed it at least close enough to fire and catch.... I think I have the float correct as not to flood... But if it were flooding, it wouldn't be firing in the first place.....where did I F up?
Thanks fellas (and gals) for any input
 
More info is needed sir. On the face of it, I would ask what Chappie asked...Is it possible you only have voltage to the coil during CRANK but not RUN?
What electronic did you switch to? If it was a Pertonix, you should have only needed to hook the RED to coil + and BLACK to coil-. That would give you 9v during RUN, and while it would work, you'll want to bypass the the resistance wire or ballast resistor the truck came with (needed for points). And that wire will be also attached to coil+. Trace it back and see where it goes. I don't know your model truck well enough to be specific. And if you did some other points eliminator kit, then disregard. I was assuming Pertonix. But check that CRANK/RUN voltage at coil+. That will confirm or eliminate something.
 
So I unhooked the 2nd red wire and gave her a shot.... Turned over but no fire...I chased it back to the starter... anyhow....hooked it back up... Turned over...fires and nothing 🤔🤔
 

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Was this engine able to run for you before all of these items were changed? You mention timing. Can you be more specific about what this involved for you? Is the manual choke on this carb functional? Are you closing it while starter cranking? With the choke open, have you tried looking down into the carb to see if you get strong squirts of fuel when you hand blip the throttle linkage?
 
Turned over...fires and nothing 🤔

Is the "nothing" part happening when you release the START portion of the ignition? I am concerned that for some reason, you do not have power to the coil in the RUN position. Seems to me, if it starts right up and then dies that could be the problem. Try the old clip lead from the battery to the coil trick and see if it stays running. Unless it runs for a couple secs THEN dies? That would be more of a fuel/tuning issue. Not ignition. Keep plugging away and let us know.
 
Scoutboy74 said:
Was this engine able to run for you before all of these items were changed? You mention timing. Can you be more specific about what this involved for you? Is the manual choke on this carb functional? Are you closing it while starter cranking? With the choke open, have you tried looking down into the carb to see if you get strong squirts of fuel when you hand blip the throttle linkage?
Click to expand...
Thank you for the reply...... Yeah she did run and ran beautifully.... So I had dinner with the Father in law last night and he was the original owner of this sled, and in all honesty, he, like most of everyone on here is saying... Im screwing up somewhere with the electric side of things.... Today I'll run "jumps" just like another fella was saying to try and see if that'll get er running constant... I appreciate this community so much....my end goal here is to drive her come October to the fall rally in N California from Carson City 🙏🤔
 
In light of that revelation, why did you feel the need to adjust the timing, or change any of the tune up items for that matter? None of the replaced items you mentioned would have necessitated a timing adjustment. Or did you not adjust the timing and I'm I merely reading too much into what you stated in your initial post? Just trying to make sure we all have the full, full complete story on what's been done thus far. The devil is often found hiding in the details.
 
Scoutboy74 said:
In light of that revelation, why did you feel the need to adjust the timing, or change any of the tune up items for that matter? None of the replaced items you mentioned would have necessitated a timing adjustment. Or did you not adjust the timing and I'm I merely reading too much into what you stated in your initial post? Just trying to make sure we all have the full, full complete story on what's been done thus far. The devil is often found hiding in the details.
Click to expand...
When I pulled the post and switched from points to electronic ignition, I had to find TDC and all that fun stuff when reinstalling it
 
Pulled the post...does that mean you removed the distributor from the engine just to install a P-tron module?
 
Was it the same distributor going back in as what came out, or was there a distributor swap as well? If the same distributor is being used, it did not need to be removed from the engine to convert from points to P-tron.
 
Same distributor.... I know a lot of you fellas can probably do this stuff in your sleep, my ageing eyes are starting to go and it's best I (if I can) work on the part being modified at my work table were things won't fall from eye sight
 
Ok. This at least explains the why for a step taken that to this point was baffling the hell out of me. I dislike distributor r & r's and avoid them unless absolutely necessary in the hopes of minimizing the potential for adding another layer of diagnostic variables to sort through. So, now that you've caught me up to speed on the why, I must direct you back to a question I posed earlier, but did not get a response to. That being a detailed explanation of the steps you went through to establish TDC compression for the dizz stab.
 
Found TDC (not with a mic) on the compression stroke with#8 cylinder, and at that point slid the distr. back in with the diaphragm on the distributor pointed at a 45⁰ towards my left hip......
 

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The distributor looks like it is oriented properly. But, you forgot a very important step which I will cover below.

The typical method for distributor install and initial timing set is as follows:

1. Manually rotate engine over until piston #8 is at the top on the COMPRESSION stroke as verified with corresponding spark plug removed to note escaping compressed air and probing with a dowel or long screwdriver to feel that the piston has indeed reached the top. The timing scribe on the crank balancer will then also be at or very near the zero degree mark on the timing index, indicating zero degrees below top dead center (BTDC). This step can even be done before the distributor is removed for future reference.

2. Install the distributor with orientation of the vacuum advance canister in a position that will allow roughly equal timing adjustment rotation in both clockwise and counterclockwise directions, along with good vacuum line attachment.

3. With the distributor cap loose from the distributor and the rotor in place, the rotor contact will be pointing to the spark plug wire location on the distributor cap that the #8 spark plug wire must be connected to as the cap is set in place. Then the remaining spark plug wires can be routed one at a time in clockwise fashion around the distributor in accordance with the engine firing order as cast into a runner on the intake manifold.

Step #3 is necessary any time the distributor shaft and the engine itself have been rotated independently of each other, such as when the distributor is physically removed from the engine. Any time this occurs, the initial basic timing relationship between the engine and the distributor is out of whack and will need to be re-established. This is why removing the distributor when it is not absolutely necessary is not advised. I understand and sympathize with the vision issue that prompted it, but doing so has created extra steps for you. The good news is, no harm has been done and you will be able to chock this up to another lesson learned.

My advice to you is, go back and re-perform step #1, making extra certain that you have #8 truly at the top of the compression stroke. Then you can skip step 2 because the distributor looks to be well oriented. Moving to step 3, you need to determine what plug wire location the rotor contact is adjacent to with the #8 piston at TDC comp. That cap location must have the #8 plug wire connected to it. If it does not, then you will need to make it so and proceed thusly from there as I outlined above in #3.
 
You bet. On a side note, your distributor is a Delco unit, similar to those found on a great many GM vehicles of similar vintage, before the High Energy Ignition (HEI) system came along. The metal access window in the cap allows for dwell angle adjustments while the engine is running, something that can't be done with a Holley points distributor. Not that it matters now in your case with the points being eliminated. Sadly IHC discontinued those Delco lightening whirlers at some point in favor of the inferior Holley units, probably for cost reduction reasons. Too bad, as it's a good design and pretty robust too. I'm fortunate to have one whirling sparks for the 392 engine in my Scout.
 
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