rebuilt Torqueflite 727 1975 150 304 pickup noise

Rusty Scout

Rusty Scout

Member
In the last few days there has been a knocking under the truck when its warmed up driven and parked for a few minutes. Does not make noise when warming up under high idle though and only makes the noise in park. My first diagnosis was there was an exhaust pipe hitting the frame. I had a pipe readjusted today that was close but not touching. No change in noise.

This trans has less than 1500 miles on it. Has a rebuilt sax-r14 converter, k225d-r rebuild kit, k22908b transgo noyoyo tf6/t-n and bushing kit k22902. Kind of a bummer that I asked for a tf-2 kit and now find it is some other number.

Today I brought it home after driving shut it off for a few and then fired it up. I crawled underneath and the noise was emanating from the bellhousing. Sounds like the tool elf is inside the torque converter banging intermittantly to get out with a hammer. Only in park. Noise goes away when put in neutral or in gear. Trans makes no noise when cold at high idle in park. Only when in park hot. If I had to guess I would say the torque converter is the culprit. Second choice is the trans oil pump.

Ever heard of this or is this a new one?

Also in the last few weeks there is a metallic chirp during the 1-2 and the 2-3 shift under load say like getting on the freeway from a stoplight. This condition began just before the banging noise from the bellhousing and continues. It also refuses to go into low above 25mph which I beleive should not be the case with the tf2 installed correctly

(edit)
now this is getting my blood pressure up cuz I am now seeing that someone May have dropped the ball besides me

little searching on the trango site shows the kit # k22908-b is crossreffed with transgo sk tfod-jr ( tfod-jr t22176 t22167 k22908nd k22908b k22946g 5005170an k22908njr)
http://www.transgo.com/crossreference.htm


And then further

sk®tfod-jr is for the following


88-07 tfod
42,42,44,46,47,48
re & rh
500,518,618
corrects/prevents/reduces: lube shortage;
soft shifts; kills engine in reverse; drainback.
Fits models with/without electronic governor system.
http://www.transgo.com/sk_dodge.php
 
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In my opinion, you have a torque converter issue going on. Was it replaced or not?

The transgo "no yo-yo" kit is pretty much a waste in my opinion, I'd never use that for anything.

A tf-2 kit (completely different system) can be installed without modifying the 1-2 governor valve and installing the shift plate. It makes no difference in the overall action of the trans, it just means that if that modification is performed, it will shift into 1st gear at any road speed in manual shift mode.

The only times (twice) I've ever had a transmission with a damaged oil pump has been twice in more than 40 years. And in both cases, the damaged pump was created because the owner tried to do a front seal job and ended up breaking the inner rotor nose. In both of these cases, that issue has been caused in the past year!

If the transmission actually operates, that means the oil pump must be working properly. The reason we sometimes do a pressure test is to try and determine "what" the problem is. But that is normally a complete waste of time as the problem is always going to be a failure which has an obvious root cause that can be easily seen once the proper part is opened up.
 
I seem to be in another situation where if you don't do it yourself someone else will take a shortcut and well you have seen the results. It's my fault for not scurtinizing the bill for the trans work. I specifically said tf2. And unless the paperwork is wrong they put in the wrong shift kit. The k22908b shiftkit I paid for was $39.54 list.

So more to come after I bring all this "new" info the the trans builder.

Yes there is a rebuilt sax-r14 converter in this job.

I would hazard a guess that the kit I have did not require any of the mods in your tf2 thread. I would assume the evidence is behind the pan.

Attached is a pic of what I think I got instead of tf2.

Oh well back to the drawing board I guess. It's looking like two issues now bad rebuilt converter and not getting what I asked for.

Trans seems to operate but kickdown(no matter how I adjust the linkage) and manual shifting are there but lacking in performance.
 

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Just one other possibility I'd lob out there as I've experienced an eerily similar issue in the past, at least noise-wise. Mine turned out to be one or more loose flex plate to converter bolts. Snugged them up and bye-bye noise like flicking a light switch. May not be your issue, but certainly easy to check and damn well worth it.
 
I am game for checking the bolts but that is one thing I did and it only bangs in park after a brief cool down. I will check the easystuff before I proceed for sure,
 
Scoutboy74 nailed it I think. I could have sworn that I used red loctite on those torque converter bolts and torqued em down good but tonight I was able to get about 1/3 of a turn on those bolts before they were "home". I reused the original bolts. Maybe that is a no no.

Anyway tightened them up and drove it around good freeway and what not. Shut it down for a few and upon restart no strange noises emanating from the bellhousing area as before when idling in park hot.

Still scratching my head about the transgo sk tfod-jr that I was billed for though. Seems like the wrong application but my trans seems to behave ok.
 
Re: rebuilt Torqueflite 727 1975 150 304 pickup noise and problems

New symptom rearing its ugly head. Today with engine warmed up but trans cold it would not shift out of 1st gear while driving in drive. I shut it down cuz it was getting ridiculous...put it in park..started it up..put it in drive..this time it started off in what felt like third gear....I manually shifted into first and manually went through the gears... Then and only then was everything alright for my afternoon errands....weird stuff man. Guess this truck is still pissed off at humans for riding her hard and puttin her away wet.
 
I've been driving since the last post without changing anything and I've narrowed down it's worst symptom. Seems that it's not wanting to drop into first as I pull up to a stop sign when the truck is still cold idle up around 1200 unless I shift it manually down to first. When truck is warmed up good and idling normally I have no complaints on the 727.

I would like to put a deep pan on the 727 ( mopar) unless mayhem (damn iphone autofill: mayben) balks at the idea.

fc0502c3.jpg
 
I personally don't use any pan on a 727 other than the oem item. Some customers want some other pan, if that is the case, that is what we do for 'em.

I'm not into all this hunk and flap about a "deep pan" myself for any 727 used on the street/trail other than to gain a drain plug which I put in the oem pans most of the time anyway.

Those do nothing other than add a few additional quarts of oil...no difference in cooling or performance. Only a true aftermarket-type prf cooler makes any true difference.

Several times a year I put both of my current rigs through some hellacious service pulling trailers offroad...as long as the units are serviced as spec'd, none will ever have an issue.

In your situation, I'd definitely have that transmission "serviced" and it's faults repaired. These units simply do not have problems like you describe. Make it right and it will last virtually forever.
 
A little old update on my 727 woes.

Told the shop that the 727 is starting off in 3rd gear when cold. He said sounds like a sticky governer.

I have heard that the kickdown rod actually controls pressure to the governer. If thats true I May get off easy since that is easily adjusted.

Anyway I its going in Monday morning to fix the leak and investigate further.

The only other advice I dug up on 727 governers was this and if that shop does not stand behind their work thats the direction I am headed:

"I'd never tear into this tranny without first performing a complete diagnostics. Not even on an "easy" pull such as a 2wd Scout or fullsize, IH or chrysler vehicle, makes no difference. No need to spend mucho time and effort chasing unknowns. Doing this on a 4x4 Scout is a major pain.

First obtain a copy of "torqueflite a-727 transmission handbook" by carl munroe from prolly any local bookstore. Better yet get a ginuwyne chrysler service manual for any year between '67 and '78 or so, passenger car or pickup, and refer to it for complete diagnostic information. There are several sets of pressure tests which should be performed and these tests are outlined in any torqueflite service reference.

If I'm doing a 727 build which doesn't exhibit any particular "issue", I never do pressure testing. If the tranny has a particular issue or issues, pressure testing is the only way to home in on the problem. Once you get into the tranny, you must identify and correct the fault, then you continue with the overhaul.

The only way to verify governor operation is to perform several different pressure tests using a double gauge set with a), the vehicle up on stands and b), using a helper to watch and record pressures when rolling down the road. All of the test sequences are outlined in any service reference for these units.

Faulty governor action is one of several different "issues" which could be root cause for your problema. You can shotgun it and just swap parts and prolly end up tearing it down 2>3 times before finally finding something wrong. Most governor issues involve worn or broken seal rings and the governor must be disassembled and removed from the output shaft in order to service. This is not something I would do with the tranny in the vehicle.

Governor service has to be done in an extremely "clean" manner/environment. Trying to do this with the unit still in the vehicle precludes that situation.

Diagnose your "issue" correctly and then deal with it accordingly. The entire diagnostic process if far too lengthy and involved to get into here on the bb, you must have the tools and the references in order to perform this process.
__________________
scruu tha goracle...buy somma my carbon debits"
 
727 governors "stick" because the transmission is heavily contaminated with trashed liquid and particulate, along with water.

They do not "fail" just from driving down the road!

The only adjustment for the entire valve body assembly is the throttle pressure control or "kickdown" assembly. And in regards to the '74/'75 fullsize vehicles the oem assemblies are complete trash. The entire way they are designed and manufactured is about as ridiculous as any assembly I've ever seen. This was done so that they would work with both the ihc-produced engines and the amc-produced stuff.

My opinion...that transmission has some real crap inside the valve body and if the trans dude did not completely tear it down and surgically clean it, then that is going to be the issue. Every valve body on these old transmissions must be disassembled and cleaned. And any debris found inside the valve body is going to be found inside the control valve on the governor which is a real simple item to rectify though the tailhousing on the trans will have to be removed.
 
When the pan was dropped there were metal chips on the magnet in the pan. The trans guys removed and tore down the tranny but could not find any parts that could have caused this. So it was completely cleaned and reinstalled with a new rebuilt converter. The suspected culprit was the converter. Now since it has been a year since they rebuilt it the first time and not just a few months regardless of the fact that it only has 2000 miles on it I had to pay. They put over 8 hours into it and installed the proper tf-2 shift kit with the full manual shift option added to the automatic shifting. So the best they wanted to do for me was free converter, 20% off labor and parts. $801.69. Add that to the original build price with converter a year ago which was 650. For a grand total of $1451.69 invested in this transmission. Kind of a gray area of out of warranty on the converter. Not pleased that I had to pay again but that's what happens when you don't deal with folks like Jeff. And while my trans guys are friendly they are in it for the money. Anyway turn the page this chapter should be over. Oh and by the way this 727/304 combo is now extremely sweet regardless of the tired Holley 2210c that needs replacing with the new 2300.
 
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