I'm confused

I meant probe it with a light. Alligator clip to ground. Loose wire contact should not be hot. If it is, that's a problem. That wire gets its juice via the ign switch when you turn it to start. The ign switch start terminal should be dead at all other times. So too should that wire running down to the solenoid 's' terminal. Everything is dead, dead, dead between those points only until the ign is switched to start and only for as long as it is held there. Once released, it goes dead again. That's what triggers the plunger inside the solenoid to make contact with the direct battery connection which in turn triggers the starter motor to spin.

Think of your current flow like the flow of a stream. It all begins at the source, which is your battery. Everything is downstream from there. Yes, current will flow back into the battery via the alternator, so in essence the electrons do flow in both directions through the wires, but for now just think of it as a one way stream starting at the battery to keep things simple in your head. The first junction downstream is the solenoid. I would temporarily disconnect all other wires save the battery cable at that location. Reconnect all the wires to the ign switch. Check your ign switch terminals for continuity. There should be none. Re-hook one loose wire to the solenoid at a time testing your ign switch terminals for continuity after each solenoid wire re-hook, until you notice continuity. The last wire connected is the suspect circuit. Examine it closely to determine why having it hooked up creates continuity between the ign sw b+ terminal and the 's' terminal even in the off position.
 
First let me say that you've really been helpful so thank you..

More questions:

I've traced every wire and I can't find anything out of order except this.(I think).

There's a wire that goes from the accessory side of the ignition switch that is labeled 4c, and goes to the resistor on the firewall which picks up a wire labeled 4a which comes from the generator light in the instrument cluster and then all the way back to the ignition side of the ignition switch.. These two wires are the two wires attached to this resistor..out of the resistor is a wire labeled 4b, and it goes to terminal number 4 on the voltage regulator.. (all is accurate according to schematic)

so here's what I think is strange, or at least it doesn't seem right to me...

With the voltage regulator plugged in and I check continuity from the 4b and ground I get a loop (continuity).. Is that right?

There's a capacitor that is connected from the regulator to ground but that shows right in the schematic.

I hope this makes sense... What am I missing??
 
Sense I'm asking a bunch of questions: what does the capacitor at the regulator do??

Any and all help appreciated. Thanks
 
I'll have to study your diagram when I get some time. Busy work schedule. I'm familiar with 10si internally regulated charging systems of the sii and d-line (70's era) vehicles, so I don't want to just spout off about externally regulated stuff until I've had a chance to review the layout.
 
Here's a full picture of the wiring diagram.. Thanks for helping.
 

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Ok I've worked on


this for another day and I can't figure out what's going on.. Every wire has been triple checked as far as location and termination..

So let me describe it again (at least as I see it now).

With everything plugged in per schematic, when I turn the ignition switch to run (not start) the start terminal on the starter is hot.. If I disconnect the 4c wire off of the ignition switch the start terminal
is dead (as it should be)..
How and the heck is power getting to the start terminal of the starter???

That terminal has only one wire attached to it and it comes directly from the ignition switch with no detours.


Help
 
In your manual on the circuit description page, what is circuit 4 called out as? The diagram shows a ground wire (circuit 3) running from the alt ground terminal over to a vr mounting stud. I don't know what the purpose of the capacitor is. So circuit 12, the starter engagement wire is being energized with ign in run position. I wonder which end of the wire is feeding the current through though. You need to find out. First disconnect that wire at the ign switch. Then probe its dangling connector and also the now naked s terminal of the ign switch. Which one is hot with the switch in run? I would suspect only the s terminal of the switch would be hot, while the now dangling wire would be dead, as would be the s terminal at the solenoid. I wonder if perhaps your ign switch has continuity between the 's' terminal and any other terminals when switched to run position with no wires connected. That would be something to test. The only time it should show any continuity is in the start position. If it shows continuity at any other switch position, the switch is fubar. I keep coming back to my suspicion of that switch, because its the only explanation I can think of that makes any sense.
 
I have stayed out of this thread but I thought I would share my experience with the ign switch in my 65.
The bakelite back of the switch, where the wires plug in, is staked in place and located by a groove and key. The housing stakes can and do loose there grip and the over time allowing the bakelite back to rotate. Mine did that and one time after starting the engine the starter stayed engaged as the back of the switch rotated with the key. I disassembled mine applied contact grease to the contacts and restakedin clocked the pwoper way.

The chinese replacements are the worst for this.

Do yourself a favor and verify the switch locations and electrical switching action.
You have 3 active positions and off in oem:

off: all 4 terminals are infinite ohms to each other. No continuity to each other.

Position 1:accessory: where the feed terminal connects to the accessory supply terminal. This feeds the radio and other non essential items.

Position 2 : run. The feed terminal connects to the acc and ignition supply terminals. 3 terminals have 0 ( close to) ohms to each other.

Position 3: start. The feed terminal connects to at least the ignition supply terminal and the starter solenoid supply terminal. Some switches disconnect the accessory terminal while in the momentary start position to ensure the starter won't have to share power. Hard to say in your case.

Pull out your vom or test light and verify the switch switching scenario. You May just be plugged in wrong or your switch May have begun misbehaving.
 
Ok, I checked the switch again for the 6th time and it's working just as it should..

Something seems to be sending continuity to the start terminal on the starter through the charging curcuit. When I pull wire number (4c) off of the switch then everything at the switch seems fine as well as the start terminal at the starter is dead when the switch is in run. (as it should be)

I've got the wrong ballast resistor in the number 4 line.. So the resistance isn't high enough, (I think). I was using a inition ballast resistor of two ohms..
I've read on the forums that this resistor should have 10 ohms of resistance..

Questions: is that right?? Would that cause the problem? Where do I get one??

Everyone I've talked to about this resistor ether doesn't know what I'm talking about, or doesn't have any idea where to get one..

Guys I really appreciate your help
 
Let me make sure I'm clear here...

The charging wire I'm referring to is labeled 4c and it's attached to the accessory side of the ignition switch, it goes through the fire wall and attaches to the resistor. Another wire labeled 4b is attached to the ignition side of the switch and goes to the generator light in the gauge cluster then it's labeled 4a as it leaves the generator light and goes through the firewall and is attached to the resistor. Leaving the resistor the wire is labeled 4b and it goes to terminal 4 of the voltage regulator.

It's when I pull the 4c wire off of the accessory side of the switch that it seems to operate correctly...

The only thing that I think is incorrect is the ohms of the resistor I'm using. Could that cause my problem?

What resistor should I be using here? What ohms? Where do I find one?
 
Oh, I should have answered scoutboy74..

Curcuit number 4 is described in the manual as follows;
"generator regulator to ammeter or shunt, or indicator light."
 
The function of a resistor is to reduce voltage by a certain amount. Current will still pass through a resistor regardless of its value. What you need is zero volts reaching the solenoid 's' terminal in any ign position other start. Not 12 volts, 9 volts, 6 volts or any figure higher than nada.
 
Ok, I've been checking point to point on the wiring and also checking each wire to ground.

Questions: when I probe line number 27 (going to temp gauge) coming off the switch and checking for continuity at the firewall.. I also get continuity to ground. Is that correct?

I also probed line number 14 from the firewall to the start terminal on the starter.. I get ground here as well. Is that right?
 
Line 27 is the power feed to the temp gauge. It feeds the voltage regulator that lives in the temp gauge. The power goes to ground through a fine wire heater winding. Yes you should measure some level of continuity to ground there.

The 14 line I assume is still connected to the solenoid while you are reading the ground connectivity you are speaking about. As with any load on a car, they all (for the most part) share a connection path to ground and when using a ohm meter on the hot side of the load and ground, will show some level of connectivity.
 
First off let me say I'm sorry for being a pain with all these questions. You guys have been awesome putting up with me.

Clearly I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm trying to figure it out.. I must admit I'm frustrated at this point..

Nothing adds up to me..

I spent this morning checking every wire form point to point.. It all check right.. (at least to me)

but when I hook up the ignition switch (which checks good), in the run position the start terminal at the switch is seeing continuity. I check at the starter and the start terminal is seeing it there as well.. It's hot all the time even when I switch to assessory on the ignition switch.

If I remove the 4b wire (generator light) from the ignition side of the switch, and I also remove 27 wire (temp gauge) from the assessory side of the ignition switch the continuity stops..

Is there something in the gauges that could cause this?
 
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