Holley 23XX Series Modular Carb Stuff

I have a 0-4412 Holley 500cfm carb on my stock 345 in a Scout II. It has been on there for a couple of years and it runs very well. It idles smooth and has good throttle response. I think it could be tweaked to run better and I'm looking for guidance on what, if anything, to do to it.

I've done the mopar hei conversion and have it timed a 12*btdc. The vacuum advance is a 7* unit and works as it should. Idle is set a around 550 rpms. Plugs are gapped at .045. The a/f mixture was set with a vacuum gauge at a peak of 15". I have not pulled plugs for examination but the exhaust tips are black. I do not smell strong gas fumes when running.

It cold starts fine but the choke cannot be used. Instead, when cold and warming up the engine, I increase the rpms with a locking throttle cable until the engine is warm.

I know 500cfm is a little too big for my motor but is it worth tweaking.

Here are my questions:
if I go to a 30cc pump, what all do I need to change..spring, cover, arm, etc?

What would be the recommended needle & seat size?

What size jets?

Discharge nozzle size?

By the way, I live in an area apprx. 1500 feet above sea level.


Any input is appreciated.
Thanks,
kenny
 
Hi kenny. Welcome to the forum. If this were a list 0-7448 version of the 2300, I think we'd be able to give you the specifics you're seeking. Unfortunately, the general consensus around these parts has been that the 4412 isn't the best choice for an IH v8 engine. It isn't the cfm rating so much as it is the overall calibration of the unit, which is very much on the Rich end of the spectrum. That's not to say that it absolutely won't work on a 345. Obviously your experience says otherwise, but there are other models that have proven themselves to be more suitable with only minor fine tuning required to dial them in. So that said, I doubt that you will get many responses telling you to use this size jet and that size shooter, etc etc. There just aren't that many folks running the 4412 on their IH engines, so that specific data simply May not exist.
Your vacuum at idle is a bit low, but not surprising. At your elevation, you should be seeing closer to 20hg at idle, but you May not be able to get there with this carb. The fact that you can't choke this carb and keep the engine running is another clue. Usually these engines really benefit from choke applied during cold start and warm up. In summary, I'd count you as one of the lucky ones since you claim decent performance from your carb. I've read multiple reports of folks who haven't had the same good fortune and had to switch to something different.
 
omahaorange74 said:
I have a 0-4412 Holley 500cfm carb on my stock 345 in a Scout II. It has been on there for a couple of years and it runs very well. It idles smooth and has good throttle response. I think it could be tweaked to run better and I'm looking for guidance on what, if anything, to do to it.

I've done the mopar hei conversion and have it timed a 12*btdc. The vacuum advance is a 7* unit and works as it should. Idle is set a around 550 rpms. Plugs are gapped at .045. The a/f mixture was set with a vacuum gauge at a peak of 15". I have not pulled plugs for examination but the exhaust tips are black. I do not smell strong gas fumes when running.

It cold starts fine but the choke cannot be used. Instead, when cold and warming up the engine, I increase the rpms with a locking throttle cable until the engine is warm.

I know 500cfm is a little too big for my motor but is it worth tweaking.

Here are my questions:
if I go to a 30cc pump, what all do I need to change..spring, cover, arm, etc?

What would be the recommended needle & seat size?

What size jets?

Discharge nozzle size?

By the way, I live in an area apprx. 1500 feet above sea level.


Any input is appreciated.
Thanks,
kenny
Click to expand...

As others have commented, the 500 cfm carb is just not designed for a truck motor. It was designed for circle track racing with an engine running at much higher rpm than the IH engine is capable of. But, it will kinda, sorta work!

From my 1983 Holley catalog:
the Holley 2300 model #0-4412 carb is rated at 500 cfm
re-new kit #37-474
trick kit #37-901
needle and seat, #6-504 = seat size .110 (viton)
main jet #122-73
power valve #125-50
discharge nozzle size .028
primary bowl gasket #108-33
primary metering block gasket #108-29
venturi diameter 1 3/8"
throttle bore diameter 1 11/16"

remember that in 1983, there was no ethanol in the fuel. The jet sizes May need to be changed to rebalance the air/fuel ratio with the ethanol. While the accelerator pump housing can be changed to the smaller 30cc pump, the smaller fuel discharge into the airstream will not provide the correct air/fuel ratio. The 'cam color' for the accelerator pump in not indicated.
Hope this helps.
 
Okay folks, in lieu of starting a new thread, I'd thought it better to stay on this one instead. Here's my question(s)....my current 2210 on the '76 traveler/304 is leaking and I think is what's causing the engine to bog down, cough, sputter then finally die over 42--45 mph. To the point where it looks like it's flooding herself to death and I have to pull over for a while & let her drain 'til she starts again (and idles & runs excellent----until I hit 40-ish again). Whatever. So anyways I'm digging around in my shop and found the 1970 #2300 series 2 bbl Holley that came with the '70 2 bbl 345. List number is 4643-3, with #2198 stamped below that and a 6r 1919 b number on the flat round area where the a/filter sits on. I also found a whole lotta rebuilding/gasket kits for this girl (original Holley oem packaging, #4-16). This one has what looks like an electric choke on it (but I can't see any terminals) but also has a cast, threaded male nipple sticking out the choke control housing. Hmmmm. Anywho, by looking at the pics can any of you rock stars tell me if this unit is complete enough with the parts on it? And weather it's worth spending the time cleaning it and re-gasketing it? I'm not worried about smog right now (have another 10 months on that date)....just wanna get a carb installed that ain't leaking....and one that'll hopefully end my bogging issues......


Thanx in advance,

rb
























































 
It looks pretty complete, although I must admit that the fuel bowl configuration (fuel inlet, float level screw, etc) is a bit different than what I'm used to seeing on these models. There's an awful lot of external corrosion visible, which can be cleaned. I'd be more concerned about internal corrosion especially within the tiny passages and ports that are problematic to clean. You won't know how bad that is until you bust it open for a looksee. Can just about guarantee you that one will need a good soak in something stronger than carb cleaner spray.

The choke setup is an original design hot air choke. The threaded fitting would have an insulated metal tube attached to it with the other end running down to a bung fitting that protrudes from the top center of the even bank exhaust manifold. This can easily be modified to accept an electric choke by simply purchasing and installing a Holley electric choke kit. The other minor issue you'd have to address is the air filter canister. Whatever you have for the 2210 won't fit the 2300.

If you can get it spotlessly clean on the inside and assembled with all correct parts, it would be a decent upgrade over the 2210. Its a gamble at this point.
 
omahaorange74 said:
thanks for the info. I May just leave it alone. It runs fine just a little Rich.

Kenny
Click to expand...

I do a ton of those carbs for circle track and there are many different versions of the 4412, even when they have the same version number (like 4412-5 etc).
The throttle blades have a hole drilled in them, a race thing, it is what is messing with your idle. Run a short screw into the hole and close it, the screw will also act as restrictor and lower the cfm rating.
To adjust the idle run the crews in until fully seated and back out 3/4 turn. With the holes in the throttle blades plugged, good ignition and healthy engine it'll idle just right.
 
Alright folks, I tore this gurl completely down (even the butterflies and rods), cleaned the crap out of it, installed new gaskets (only about 12--14 in it....nice), put it all back together, performed 4 or 5 bench adjustments (as per the instruction sheet that came with the gasket kit) and then stuck her on the 304, except for the choke. Poured a bit of gas down her throat and she fired right up, purred like a kittenand sounded awesome. Even without the air filter installed and 4 or 5 unplugged vacuum lines laying all over the place. Then I had to shut her off due to leaking from the accelerator pump(?) that's under the bowl, driver's side. I used the same pump that was already on the carb (which looked fairly new but has probably been sitting around for years unused and the rubber diaphram around it felt a bit stiff and had a couple of 'bubbles' near the edges). Anyone know if these are a pita to find? And which one I might need?


















Also, here's another goody that was already inside the carb, and that I re-installed. I'm thinking I should buy one of these as well, given that I need to tear back inside of the carb to do the accel pump thingy. Anyone know what these are actually called, and which one should I order to replace it?....:icon_cool:











 
Well at least it was worth the effort and there's hope for it. With today's crapahol fuels that the gummint is force-feeding us at rock bottom prices, you really need to get as many alcohol resistant soft parts inside that thing as you can. Gflt rated. That goes for the accel pump diaphragm and the power valve, which is the thingy you were wondering about. Also, do yourself a huge favor and get some better metering block and fuel bowl gaskets. Those ancient relics in the picture look like shit. The good ones are Holley brand and are blue neoprene. You don't want the old school orgasmic fiber pieces in those locations.
 
Thanx for the info, Scout----those pics you see are the old gaskets that I took out....but the 'new' ones were very similar. I'll poke around tomorrow on the 'net and see about finding a more up-2-date gasket kit and those two other goodies.....:cryin:
 
Just in case anyone cares, found the Holley gasket kit in town here ($33.00---wowch) but that's better than waiting 'til Monday. Took her off and apart real quick, installed the blue fiber gaskets, the two cork 'rings' for the idle adjustment screws/jet looking things, a new power valve and a new 30cc accel pump goody, reinstalled her, modded a steel fuel line for her, replaced the clamps and fuel lines on each side of the filter, played with some return springs, found the air cleaner w/the 5" hole in it & cleaned her all up, found a spot for all the vacuum lines (except one, which I plugged) and finally fired her up. No choke (but the other one on the 2210 didn't work either), let her idle for 10---13 minutes to warm up, adjusted the single idle arm screw, punched her 2800-ish a few times.....and I got to say, she sounds great, no lag spots and feels much smoother (given my tranny mount is shot and I can feel every vibration). So now I'm gonna take a gamble and make a 1.5 mile run up to the gas station and see what she does. Will report back in a bit. Hopefully....:icon_domokun:
 
scoutboy74 said:
way to go ricky! Drive it like you stole it.
Click to expand...

I'm trying, s/b, I'm trying. Still have less than 2k into this girl. Most funnest taco getter I've ever owned......:lol:



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I'm in need of some help with what I believe is a carb issue. I am new this site but have searched here and bb read but keep hitting dead ends.
67 Travelall 1100 b 4x4, Dana 60 w/ loc rite, Dana 44 w/eloc, 4.88s, 39.5's, 304, t19 w, np202, 4 wheel disk, ps
the problem I'm having is running very Rich, idle screws do nothing. I'll try my best to walk through what I've done to no avail.
Carb is a Holley 2300 (rebuilt from napa) manual choke list 1710-1, 151786-r91, 54 jets, 6.5 pv, metering block that came with carb was 2633 19291 with advance port the block had no plugs in the af holes carb has af on base plate in rear. Not sure on xcel pump size but is adjusted at wot .02.
Pertronics, 7mil wires, autolight 85s. 8btdc w/out advance, advance canister of dist is about 2inches away from manifold.

To date, checked and rechecked float level (just below site hole when running on flat) swapped power valve 2x haven't had backfire. Plugged holes on metering block with 8/32 thread pan head bolts and cork washers. Replaced metering block with old one, that had af screws plugged and now vac post plugged#4275. Same issues runs eye watering Rich loads up when warm, af screws on baseplate do nothing wont kill motor when all in or all out. Carb wont run on idle circuit.
Any help greatly appreciated.
 
rockwell67 said:
I'm in need of some help with what I believe is a carb issue. I am new this site but have searched here and bb read but keep hitting dead ends.
67 Travelall 1100 b 4x4, Dana 60 w/ loc rite, Dana 44 w/eloc, 4.88s, 39.5's, 304, t19 w, np202, 4 wheel disk, ps
the problem I'm having is running very Rich, idle screws do nothing. I'll try my best to walk through what I've done to no avail.
Carb is a Holley 2300 (rebuilt from napa) manual choke list 1710-1, 151786-r91, 54 jets, 6.5 pv, metering block that came with carb was 2633 19291 with advance port the block had no plugs in the af holes carb has af on base plate in rear. Not sure on xcel pump size but is adjusted at wot .02.
Pertronics, 7mil wires, autolight 85s. 8btdc w/out advance, advance canister of dist is about 2inches away from manifold.

To date, checked and rechecked float level (just below site hole when running on flat) swapped power valve 2x haven't had backfire. Plugged holes on metering block with 8/32 thread pan head bolts and cork washers. Replaced metering block with old one, that had af screws plugged and now vac post plugged#4275. Same issues runs eye watering Rich loads up when warm, af screws on baseplate do nothing wont kill motor when all in or all out. Carb wont run on idle circuit.
Any help greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...

It sounds like you have an orginal International carburetor, the Holley 2300 carb kit won't work. Look kinda the same, but very different animals. Are there idle richness adjusting screws in the metering block as well as the thorrle plate? Or are they in just the throttleplate on the backside?
That metering block (if roriginal IH) has a crosstube for accelerator pump, if somebody has mixed things up raw fuel will run thru the accelerator pump circuit into the cavity behind the powervalve and into the engine thru the vacuum port (it'll do the same if your pv gasket is cocked slightly).
Take carb apart, start your own thread and post some pics, theres some smart guys on here that'll get you squared away lickitysplit.
One thing you can do to test, set the carb up on some legs (I have 5/16ths allthread about 8" tall) thru the carb bolt holes and connect electric fuel pump to it. You'll see where the raw fuel is entering the engine real quick.
Love a '67 Travelall, they're badassed.
 
That makes sense, metering block on my rebuilt carb is incorrect as it has af screws and the carb also has them in the rear of the throttle plate as well. So I guess I need to know what metering block I need that is correct and matches the carb so I don't have the raw fuel bypassing the correct systems. Also if there are gasket kit #s to get it all back together.
 
rockwell67 said:
that makes sense, metering block on my rebuilt carb is incorrect as it has af screws and the carb also has them in the rear of the throttle plate as well. So I guess I need to know what metering block I need that is correct and matches the carb so I don't have the raw fuel bypassing the correct systems. Also if there are gasket kit #s to get it all back together.
Click to expand...

You're in a real bad spot, like the old timer said 'you can't get there from here.'
you are much better off to get another carburetor at this point because finding the right stuff to restore yours will be difficult. The metering block is rare, very rare. I would get a regular 2300 Holley 350cfm carb and it'll work very well without modification. I feel the original IH Holley has a better mechanical choke but other than that the idle ckt etc is all close enough to work without modification.
I'm surprised others haven't chimed in, you should start your own thread as they might be missing this one and some pictures would be a big help.
 
If you bought the carb from napa and have the receipt, take it back as it assembled with the wrong parts. The better choice is as has been suggested - to go with the newer Holley 2300 with 350 cfm flow. The air filter housing will fit the new carb but the fuel inlet will need to be adjusted as the new carb will have the carb fuel inlet on the bottom of the fuel bowl on the passenger side.
 
Well I have my old IH carbs rolling around maybe I will get lucky and part # will match. I am leery to go digging in the folder for the receipt in fear of adding all the rest of them up. Most likely I'll be getting a new 2300 ordered. Suggestions on jet size I'm at about 500 level. 54-56 range? This whole mess is expediting my TBI sourcing so it can go on when I pull it in for the winter. As always thanks for all the help.
 
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