Engine Cooling Systems and Components

Does any one run a 195f thermostat? I bring this up as it was the solution for my overheating problem on my 85 suburban with a warmed 355, manual trans, high flow 180f thermostat, new radiator, new hd fan clutch, new hd waterpump. It would get up to 240f+ going up a mild hill towing a fairly light load, ac off. Not towing, it will run 210f on the highway on a warm day.

Then I remembered an argument about water moving too fast through the radiator will not efficiently cool down before being pumped back through the engine. I decided to change to a 195f t-stat (not high flow). That solved the overheating problem. Under the same condition, it will get up to 220f only if the engine revs up past 4k. Engine rpm at 3500 it will stay around 210f. This is due to the fan clutch disengaging at high rpm. In addition, the motor runs better on the 195f t-stat. This is probably due to the head design for less smog. But I've had people tell me that their motors run better with 195f t-stats. IH owners included.
 
I will only run/install a rs370-195 in any IH motor (I-4/sv) that I deal with. Scout 80 (two different capacity radiators), s800, sii, and fullsize stuff. Vertical flow radiators I use only a 7lb. Pressure cap, cross flow stuff uses only a 13lb. Pressure cap.

The "last gen" 345 for the Scout II app mid-'79>'80 did away with the highly-engineered bypass system designed to use the balance flow tstat. A cost reduction deal since the vehicle platform was dead at that point anyway. It uses a "conventional" tstat, though an rs 370 unit May be installed.
 
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Update. I tore the tank on my radiator. I could see some cracks in the solder before where the tank attaches to the mounting flange. The rubicon run made it leak drip drip.:icon_neutral:

I pulled the radiator so it could be fixed or replaced. I decide to clean it up before working on it or taking it to a shop. I sprayed it down with some hvac coil cleaner and then hosed it off. The nossle on the hose bent a few fins over. I did not think I was spraying that hard. A closer look revieled that some fins are not fully attached to the tubes. I check others and they were stiff out to the edge, but some fins were not. Which means they are not working as good as they could be. I have another Scout radiator and will check it tonight.

I can have mine recored or get a replacement.
Jeff can get copper / brass replacements or aluminum.
I found tapp sells a replacement rad, as does griffin.
There are some summit Ford radiators that could work too.
The summit version are only 19" tall ( 3" shorter that stock) so to make up the difference I could modify the front support to hold a wider radiator.

griffin 1-56222 <clicky> ....26 l x 19 h 2 row 1.25 tubes

griffin 1-56272 <clicky> ....31 l x 19 h 2 row 1.25 tubes

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tapp <clicky>
 

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I will have tapp aluminum radiators in stock soon and they look way better than the picture you posted. They are a direct bolt in with the proper hose connections and a stock fan shroud bolts right into place. I met russel dills the owner two weeks ago at the nats and I was very impressed with their product.
 
Did you ever have trouble with the racer spliting the tank loose from the mounting? Several have on the pirate

looking at the image vs a stock rad, looks like the tapp would be closer to the fan. Not an issue for me, but the stock rad is offset about 3/4" to the front. Look at monte pic to see what I mean.

I took the front end off to see what it will take to widen the front to fit a 31" wide rad. Either way I will mount the radiator like a Ford?Chevy top and bottom vs side to side. The frame just twists to much.

I have a 2" body lift so my shroud does not fit anyway. I modified the stock one to fit before running the electric fan. I e-mail them and got a price a few weeks ago, and then asked several questions about mounting top and bottom, but never heard back.
 
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Well I decided to go with a universal the cradle mounted radiator. Had to cut about 6" out of the front clip to get it to fit:nono: this is no show Scout that's for sure, it's my trail rig. So sheet metal trimiming is not an issue. I should have it ready by the weekend for some testing.
 
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Ok it's been a while and no update to the radiator mods.

As you can see in the photo above the radiator is mounted close to frame level. Well that would mean I would need a remote pressure cap to "burp" the system. So I removed the radiator and cut out all the stuff I welded in there:( I looked at neck extenders and remote reservoirs and figured I would be ahead of the game just moving the radiator up a few inches.

I made some new bottom brackets from angle iron and flat stock that hold the Ford bushing. I then welded some 2x2 to the frame and then these brackets to that. That raised the top of the radiator up enough to be the highest point in the system again. Feeling good about the change when I notice the outlet of the radiator is about in the middle of the power steering belt:icon_eek: I went to the jy to find a 1 3/4" (rad output) hose that makes a hard 90. Found a nice hose on a 97 Ford econoline 1 ton van. That got the water going down, but now it needed to come back up to the water pump inlet.
Well since the front of the engine has water tubes, why not a couple more:winky:
I went to tognottis and grab a couple 2" exhaust u tubes.
Some cut and paste and narrowing one end to fit the hose took care of that issue. Next I played with several mounting brackets to hold the radiator down. I used some stock GM stuff and homemade versions, but none seemed to be what I really wanted. Knowing how hard I play I wanted to be sure the radiator was not going to move. So I ended up with some simple top clamps. I just drill a hole and welded a nut underneath to make removal simple and stock like. I ended up welding several nuts in places to hold the cross member for the tranny and power steering coolers, and to hold my electric fan too. I did a quick foil tape job to seal the top of the radiator just to drive it to the rallye, but will come up with something more durable.

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Nice stuff dude! This should do the trick1

I was really impressed with your install! Just Friday nite Mike and Isa and I were discussing a very similar setup they use on some of their race stuff.
 
Some of you know the saga of the pink Scout. For those of you that don't, I built it for my wife so she can race the mud drag circuit. I used a dodge 440 to power the beast, unfortunately I didn't leave enough room under the hood to mount the radiator and a mechanical fan. I tried using an electric fan, but it didn't keep it cool enough.

100_4203.jpg


To make a long story short my original plan was to mount the radiator in the rear and mount dual electric fans to keep it cool. I ran out of time and settled for the current setup. So my plan this winter is to do some upgrades, one of which is the radiator modifications.

I picked this up in a trade the other day. I think it will do for our upgrade.

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More to come later.
 
Craig said:
monte, that looks like a newer Ford van radiator, them things are huge
Click to expand...

This radiator came out of a 87 blazer. Aftermarket direct bolt in. The guy used it twice and has now stripped the blazer for parts. It worked out well for me because I got radiator and the TBI. :gringrin:
 
In the for what it's worth department the fan spacer Craig used is called a fan clutch replacer from perma-cool, part #24750. Jegs has them for about $16.00.
As soon as I can get back under the hood I looking forward to pulling the water pump housing and checking the clearance issues. Warm weather is coming!
 
Jesse just called me last week as he was doing some t-stat testing and says he got some numbers that are interesting. I told him to post up, maybe his camera not working:smilewinkgrin: anyway I will hook up with him and see these numbers for myself. Stay tuned.

Lou your Scout is a perfect case to study. One you have owned your Scout for like 25 years, and it's in great original condition. So there's no p.o neglected cooling issue. And you have a new 3 or 4 core radiator too.
 
In the spirit of this thread (cooling problems), I'd like to share that my water pump as recently sprung a leak out of the shaft seal. I'd like to rebuild my pump rather than replace it with a reman. I always seem to have problems with remans not lasting, or not fitting properly to begin with on my early sii.

However I'm not seeing any kind of rebuild kit available, which forces the other option of trying to find the correct replacement and ensure it's setup properly. Looking at auto parts fast at rockauto I see 12 different pumps, or pump sources for a '71 sii. Sigh. It's never simple is it?

I have a fixed fan, and a three (3) groove pulley mounted to it. It looks like any of the non-clutch fan pumps will work. Not sure of the difference between the 4-hole and 8-hole units.
 
bread said:
in the spirit of this thread (cooling problems), I'd like to share that my water pump as recently sprung a leak out of the shaft seal. I'd like to rebuild my pump rather than replace it with a reman. I always seem to have problems with remans not lasting, or not fitting properly to begin with on my early sii.

However I'm not seeing any kind of rebuild kit available, which forces the other option of trying to find the correct replacement and ensure it's setup properly. Looking at auto parts fast at rockauto I see 12 different pumps, or pump sources for a '71 sii. Sigh. It's never simple is it?

I have a fixed fan, and a three (3) groove pulley mounted to it. It looks like any of the non-clutch fan pumps will work. Not sure of the difference between the 4-hole and 8-hole units.
Click to expand...

Why use a "rebuilt" water pump when ya can buy a new one???? The 4 hole hub was an oem unit for an I-4 motor (152/196). The 8 hole hub will work on either fan type. The pumps themselves are identical except for the hub...absolutely no difference in performance/specification, there was only one pump used on both engine series.

There are two bolt patterns for the "fixed" fans...the one for the I-4 was different from the pattern for the sv app.

The third type water pump is the "thread-on" hub...commonly referred to as the "big nut" fan clutch version that used the eaton hd clutch. Again...the only difference is the hub between all three pumps.

The aftermarket parts lookups simply offer up reboxes of the same dam part under umpteen brand names at different price points for each!

A "rebuilt" water pump is not allowed in my shop! New ones are too cheep to scruu with rebuilts that will have a quality point all over the place!

If you want a new water pump custom clearanced to your existing water pump housing, then send the parts to us at ihon and we'll do the set up. Call Jeff for the cost. Or...send your pump housing to ihon and Jeff will supply a new pump with a custom set up and verified and return to ya clean and including new "o" rings for the water tubes.

I have a full assortment of all fan spacers lou, I can send ya the set and you chose what ya need...including some fine tuning "shims". We have just finished doing a problem child near identical to yours in denver. That one had air flow issues based on the use of a new hayden fan clutch that would not blow when called upon. My advice at this point...shitcan the clutch forever unless ya run across a pristine big nut clutch and then replace the water pump (or swap the hubs from a donor) and clearance it.
 
michael mayben said:
why use a "rebuilt" water pump when ya can buy a new one???? The 4 hole hub was an oem unit for an I-4 motor (152/196). The 8 hole hub will work on either fan type. The pumps themselves are identical except for the hub...absolutely no difference in performance/specification, there was only one pump used on both engine series.

There are two bolt patterns for the "fixed" fans...the one for the I-4 was different from the pattern for the sv app.

The third type water pump is the "thread-on" hub...commonly referred to as the "big nut" fan clutch version that used the eaton hd clutch. Again...the only difference is the hub between all three pumps.

The aftermarket parts lookups simply offer up reboxes of the same dam part under umpteen brand names at different price points for each!

A "rebuilt" water pump is not allowed in my shop! New ones are too cheep to scruu with rebuilts that will have a quality point all over the place!

If you want a new water pump custom clearanced to your existing water pump housing, then send the parts to us at ihon and we'll do the set up. Call Jeff for the cost. Or...send your pump housing to ihon and Jeff will supply a new pump with a custom set up and verified and return to ya clean and including new "o" rings for the water tubes.

I have a full assortment of all fan spacers lou, I can send ya the set and you chose what ya need...including some fine tuning "shims". We have just finished doing a problem child near identical to yours in denver. That one had air flow issues based on the use of a new hayden fan clutch that would not blow when called upon. My advice at this point...shitcan the clutch forever unless ya run across a pristine big nut clutch and then replace the water pump (or swap the hubs from a donor) and clearance it.
Click to expand...

Sweet. I looked at the ihon website before posting and didn't see a new pump offered. I'll ring him up!
 
Mike, thank you! I did buy the adapter that replaces the fan clutch and that will eliminate the clutch issue. Then I'll start on the volute clearance issue. I'll post when I can get into the Scout.
 
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