DUI yea/nay?

[tewills]

1978 Scout II, d44's, 3.73, a/t, 345, air condition removed, flowmaster exhaust, no gold box.

So, I realize "hot starts" have been beat to shreds and I have read I believe every post available. I have included some pictures which I need help identifying. On to the issue:
1. Takes a bit when cold to start, once started auto choke engages and after warm up auto choke releases to normal idle
2. Drive any distance, takes quite a bit of time to get it started again ad nausem.

Dropped the tank (clean tank), replaced fuel line with a1 fuel line, replaced pick up filter, replaced fuel pump/fuel filter, verified sending unit wasn't plugged.

The carb (pic included) has never been touched, I know it is a Holley but the model I am unsure of. Would rather replace than rebuild.

New red top battery
unknown coil type (pic included)
other pics requiring id'ing

so after all of this, I have yet to see any neg reviews/comments concerning the dui. However, can the dui be used in every sii setup? I understand the dui replaced the coil as well?

 

[FDChappie]

Look down the carb throat and see if fuel is dripping down the intake right after you shut it down. If so the float needle is shot. Does it act flooded when you try to restart it.

 

[Scoutboy74]

That's a Holley 2210. I've expressed my opinion about this carb model numerous times on this forum and others. In a nutshell, even when they're perfect, a very rare condition four decades removed from new, they're nothing to write home about. In your other thread, I got the impression, perhaps incorrectly, that this Scout has a new wiring harness, yet I see evidence of original wires with a half inch of exposed wire connected to a firewall bulkhead connector. Besides looking ugly, it could be a source of potential electrical issues. Also, it looks like there are quite a few wires connected to the coil positive terminal. Seems overly busy to me. Would be nice to determine what's going on there. The dui is a nice product, but it comes with quite a price tag. I think maybe you're hoping for a magic bullet fix to your issues and I think you might be setting yourself up for disappointment. My point is, for the cost of a dui (one item), you could very easily address multiple issues ie carb upgrade, updated wiring etc. In doing so, you might just find that your hot start issues disappear. I think before you crap can your current distributor, we ought to help you make proper id of it through the magic of digital imagery.

 

[tewills]

Ok, will hold off on dui for now. And dropping 500 into a new distro would be a drop in the bucket for me as long as the outcome was insurance of functionality.

As for the wiring, yes I believe it was a kwik wire which was installed. Also, I have never seen other scouts set up as mine under the hood. Such as three wires coming off of the + coil, also the gadget sitting on top of the coil.

I will find the article about the remote start.

What do you think my next step should be? Also to answer your question, the heat shield around the starter is gone it was never there, I got a deal on the high torq starter and dropped it in.

Thanks in advance

 

[Scoutboy74]

Heat is heat. It can effect new and old parts alike. If you've got $$ to burn, I'd say go ahead on a carb upgrade now. The Holley list 0-7448 is a 350 cfm aftermarket 2300 model. You can get them raht cheer from IHPA. They'll get it boxed up and buzzed down the 5 to you quick, fast and in a hurry. Make sure you get the thick bowl insulator gasket to set underneath it. This is one of the most common and effective upgrades binder folk with 2bbl intake manifolds can make. The small cylinder atop your coil is a radio frequency interference noise suppressor. Modern mobile audio equipment coupled with modern plug wires have all but made those little buggers unnecessary. Please shoot a pic of your distributor with and without the cap attached. I suspect it is a prestolite solid state unit which typically give good, reliable service. If confirmed, a dui would really not provide much if any perceptible gain...certainly not five c-notes worth! As you're gathering, I'm driven by putting the dough where it is surest to give the most return.

 

[tewills]

Here are the distro pics.

Also, I read the hot start issue drafted by Mike. From his write up, a hot start as defined is a starter not turning over. So I May have miss-spoke. The issue I have is hard to start up in cold, pumping gas usually gets it going. And then after short drive usually 3 blocks to store, 20 minutes total time it takes forever to start again. Usually pumping the gas 10x. Also, noticed that the butterfly is not shut on the carb, hasn't been started in 3 days. It is fully open.

 

[Scoutboy74]

Yeah, your terminology was a bit off. It happens. I think your starting issues are primarily if not totally a result of your current carb condition. Some minor tweaks could possibly improve matters to a minor degree, but I would not opt for rebuilding it, unless your Scout is subject to periodic smog certification including under hood visual inspection.
As I suspected, your dizz is a prestolite electronic, meaning it doesn't have breaker points and condenser. Unless the shaft has excessive play indicating a worn out condition, I would leave that sucker alone for now to focus on other more urgent matters.

 

[tewills]

I hear what you are saying, let's say I am not subject to smog yet have all the smog equipment installed, along with one broken cylinder's air injector which bent over. Since I am not a carb tech, nor even remotely capable of tweaking a carb. I did notice the carb you recommended in a sep write up does not come with an auto choke. Unless it was an option I didn't happen to see.

 

[Scooter]

Unfortunately, seeing as your Scout is a 78, you be subjected to the dreaded smog crapola. There is some how and way to by pass it in some re-registration and inspections of some sort. But I have no clue as to how to go about doing it. All I can say is that when I order certain parts for my 73 beast, I need to pay attention to what year the part is intended for.

With that being said, since for the time being, at some point you will end up in a smog shop. The bent/broken exhaust tube you mentioned should be looked into being fixed. Just saying.

I'm not much on carbs either, so I couldn't answer much on it. Between this thread and your other one, it all seems to lead to fuel and ignition issue.

If indeed your rig has actually been re-wired with a kwikwire kit, then those bulk head connectors would have been eliminated or bypassed. I just finally had a chance to check out the photos posted and dayum, them wires look 35+ years old. Looks to be some po'ed piece of work. Maybe if ye post up a photo of the fuse box.

 

[tewills]

Thanks for your reply.

Here are some pics.

1. Fuse block
2/3. Don't know what these are.

Also, after some intensive review of the carb posts, I am quite concerned paying a local guy to re-build if there are parts which need to be purchased aside from rebuild kit (I.e. Fel-pro gasket) which apparently is not a standard item.

Smog: let's assume for this issue it is a must. I recently took it in and a test only joint said it would fail based on high hydrocarbons. I only did this because of the foul odor being emitted from the truck. The truck is registered in a county of cali that is smog exempt, though the Scout came with all smog items.

The bent air tube is a problem, being this forum is attached to a light line reseller, I would have hoped one of them would have chimed in.

Is there a test for a bad smog pump? Also, being a 78 no cat-converter. Nothing under the hood except fuel pump/filter and starter have been replaced.

 

[Scoutboy74]

There can be two components of a smog test. One is a sniff at the tail pipe or a connection to the ECM via the under dash coupling for vehicles made in the 90's or later. In your case it would be a low tech tail pipe sniff. Either way it is performed without ever opening the hood. If that is all you had to worry about, it wouldn't matter what equipment either was or was not present in the engine bay as long as the tail pipe emissions were within tolerance.
The other level of inspection includes a visual peek under the hood. In that case, every single piece of emissions crappola that was installed when the truck rolled off the line would theoretically need to be present and functional. Now, what are the odds that adolf smognotzee is familiar enough with late 70's scouts to know precisely what is and what isn't original? Modifications done in a haphazard fashion will naturally be obvious enough for a blind monkey to spot.
You say it is registered in a smog exempt county. Hopefully that means you can do whatever you want with it.
The new 2300 can be outfitted with an electric choke at the time of purchase if that's what you want.
The fuse block is definitely the modern style you'd expect to see in an aftermarket wiring kit. I just don't understand then, why the wiring looks so cheesy and crapball in the engine bay.
The unknown item on the firewall with vacuum lines and a multi-wire connector hooked to it is a deceleration control module. Its just one of many original emission system components.

 

[tewills]

I am at an impasse:

1. Remove all the smog equipment, plug the head where the air tubes go. Block off the appropriate vacuum lines, etc.

2. Keep all the smog equipment, pay an incredibly high price to replace one air tube and replace all vacuum lines, pcv, etc..

What remains is:

1. The starting issue (will be "Ford" remote relay work?)
2. Ignore the foul smelling exhaust while idling. With doors open in the house, damn you could kill anything moving.

As for the wiring, I saw the kit which was to be installed. Having paid a third party to do the work, I was unaware of all the wires which needed/required to be replaced.

 

[Scoutboy74]

I don't know that you're at an impasse. The starting issue as it now seems is present all the time. In other words, the start up is finicky whether the engine is hot or cold. I've said already that I believe it is all in the carb. The remote relay is a fine modification to perform, for addressing a starter that intermittently refuses to engage properly when the engine is hot and for making sure that condition never arises in the future. It does nothing to address poor start up and raw fuel odor as a result of a carb that is far out of tune. I think you should find out from the dmv just what hoops your Scout will or won't be subjected to when it comes time to renew the registration. Armed with that info, you can then determine which course to pursue, with upgrading to newer and more user friendly components being the best scenario.

 

[Scooter]

Agreed with having a discussion with dmv. Being in a smog exempt city in kalifunkia, I'm not sure what the full details of how they non smog stuff compared to the rest of the state. Especially if, hopefully not, let the Scout go into some one else's hands. Even though I'm a kalifunkia native, I haven't had to deal with smog crap in roughly 10 years. All my rigs are pre 75.

New fuse box mixed in with oem wireing, ha! Why am I not surprised. Typical po'ed piece-o-work. I have seen worse though. Every re-wire I have done eliminates that bulkhead connector. They are notorious for being problematic.

Replacing the carb just might solve the rotten egg smell. Along with a tune up.

 

[tewills]

Actually, I was the one who paid to have the wiring re-done, but again I was unaware of just what was to be replaced/re-wired. With that being said, I assume the bulkhead connector is the one with the 3 wires. 1. Battery 2. Ground 3. Alternator - correct?

Is there a bulkhead replacement set up?

 

[1975IH200]

A couple items I see in your photos that are causing starting problems.

1. You have a choke pull-off, and it is connected to a vacuum source, and it is probably working as the choke plate is fully open. That being said, you do not have a functioning choke actuating mechanism. The divorced choke control has been removed. This needs to be remedied if you keep this carb.

2. You have a prestolite electronic distributor, however it is missing the dust cover and it has a Holley distributor cap installed. To use the proper, and higher quality, prestolite dizzy cap with male terminals, you need to source the dust cover and a new cap. Then you will need new plug wires to match the cap.

2a. As always, I suggest sourcing the highest quality (and usually the most expensive) ignition tune up parts: cap, rotor, plug wires, etc.

3. I have little doubt, with more photos of the engine compartment, that there are missing and/or mis-routed vacuum hoses etc. To be found and corrected.

4. I think it is too early to move to the "Ford relay fix" or a new dui system, until these issues are properly addressed, including the starter solenoid heat shield and the ignition primary wiring, which have been discussed previously.

 

[tewills]

Wow, thanks much for the write up.

The vacuum I will chase down. The only diagram I have is what is posted on some web site.

As far as the distro is concerned. I have no idea what the dust cover looks like, along with the fact I can't seem to find the right cap for this thing, seems like they quit supporting scouts. If you could give me a vendor/link to what I need that would be way cool.

Lastly, the choke.. Again, a picture of what I should have would help. I have no idea even if I had it, how to install it.

I know the choice for some would be the 2300 carb, yet I wouldn't be able to keep the stock air cleaner, which is vacuum hose heavy.. Suggestions would help considerably.

Based on what you stated about the distro, and the fact it May be hard to find, along with what I can assume to be an expensive fix, is the dui more cost efficient?

 

[Rock Tractor]

This web site is hosted by the best old IH shop in the world.
Just click here

I ran a dui. But after I fixed all the other stuff that these guys have said.

 

[tewills]

Thank you very much for your link..

I noticed by the responses I have a prestolite distro which requires a dust cap.. I searched the link provided and came back with no items. I mentioned the thought of buying a dui, but didn't here anyone chiming in other than those trying to help a poor Scout owner. I appreciate the input, and truly would love a local shop to help me.. But alas I am lost in no man's land.

 

[1975IH200]

Prestolite dust cover photo attached.
You need this in order to run the correct cap and have it fit properly.

Cap is napa p/n al162
rotor is napa p/n al163

IHPartsAmerica should be able to get you what you need quickly. This website is where scouts are supported!!!!! If you don't see it on the website, call them on the phone. They will help you.

The dui is a good unit, I have one on my truck, but fix what you have first, you can always spend lots of money later if you want, not necessary now. Get it running properly first.

1. Get ignition in top notch shape first.
2. Then get the fuel delivery system (carb & fuel filter, lines etc) in top condition.

I would recommend the Holley list 0-7448 in 350 cfm and electric choke for your Scout II. If you upgrade the carb, then the divorced choke becomes a non-issue as you will then have the electric choke on the new carb.
The small aluminum box near the right side of the carb, mounted to the intake manifold is where the original divorced choke mounted. The po removed it and installed a manual choke, evidenced by the silver bracket mounted near the front right side of the carb, the cable is also removed. Therefore you have no choke actuation. This is what is causing you difficulty to start, cold or warm.