DUI install on 345 stock 2bbl

[GK_Slick]

Well, where I need to be is right where that cap hold-down and the bypass hose clamp collide. Guess maybe I could bump it out one the advanced way. Those specs you were looking for were to the best of my feelers was .029-.040. Maybe .028-.040
I am getting frustrated with this dui timing thing. If I advance it a tooth to get the hold-down past the bypass then the electrical horn is going to have tension put on it by the hose.
Oh well, so much for bolt on. I can't believe I am the only one having this problem.

 

[Michael Mayben]

You are not the only one who runs into this issue!

Bubba down in medford ground away a portion of the boss where the cap hold down is to make enuff clearance on his, but that was before I had him move the drive one tooth. Once he did that, then everything fell into place...barely with no fudge factor!

To re-stab, ya could stick a flat blade screwdriver down in the hole and "slightly" turn the oil pump drive, it turns very easily...but I don't do that, I just remove the cap and set it aside, the oil pump drive engages before the drive gear slides into engagement so ya can tweek the pump drive position just by turning the rotor, then slide the drive gear home. Make sure the bronze distributor drive bushing is in proper position in the block above the oil pump drive, without that bushing, the distributor will begin to self-destruct within 30 minutes of run time.

Thanks for checking that endplay! That's a bit more than what I would have suspected but within tolerance for a Holley distributor drive system spec'd by IH.

 

[GK_Slick]

Those are the gap measurements, leaving .011-.012 movement.

Yeah I am gonna advance it + one and rotate the horn toward the hose and see if I can get it there and if so , maybe I will just get some high dollar hose option or spend a day in the hose dept at the lps.
With it retarded a tooth, the best I could get to was -5 and the next tooth was +15-25?. That was with the boss in between the bypass housing and the hose. So what is left is advance one move that boss forward. Seems tighter than a fist up a weasels ass but it May be my next to last option.
Thanks

 

[Eric VanBuren]

The IH distributor uses a 17 tooth gear, which spaces them about 21 degrees apart while the firing points are 45 degrees apart.

1. Set your timing Mark to 5 degrees btdc, a good starting point for most svs, with the rotor pointing to what is currently #8, remove rotor.

2. Remove the distributor hold down and position the distributor body in the middle of the available adjustment range.

3. Lift the distributor just far enough to disengage the drive gear but not the oil pump drive shaft, and then move it one tooth at a time until you find the position where the points on the pickup and reluctor line up exactly, with the distributor near the middle of the adjustment range. Lock down the distributor.

4. Reinstall the rotor and re-wire the plug wires starting with #8 where the rotor is now pointed.

You will now be timed at 5 btdc and should have room to advance and retard the timing.

 

[GK_Slick]

Thanks eric, sounds logical. Took me a couple times reading that to visualize it. Damn fluoride.
Well I didn't make it to the bone yard but I did the previous stated operations. Is there any reason why the manufacturer would say not to use the labeled wires on a different plug? The reason I ask is now the rotor position for number eight is pointing at the water neck outlet passenger side bolt and the wire labeled #5 will no longer reach it's place. If they say this to stop any mix up just from the number I can understand and I could relabel it myself(both ends), but if there is going to be a resistance issue then....? Do they do the different lengths just to penny pinch on the wire used in manufacturing?
Oh, and about the bronze bushing? Is it bronze or just look that way with oil on it? Do you have a picture of what I should look for? I certainly don't want to burn all this up. Well I took some pics, here they are and anyone can use them if they want.
Thanks

 

[GK_Slick]

Update! Ok it is running again and cold at idle with va disconnected and hose plugged I am running about 5btdc. I did have to use differently labeled wires from the livewire kit for different plugs but it seems fine. Now when I pull the plugs to open the gaps I will relabel those wires. I hope this is the end of all of this. I am going to take this out and see if it knocks or pings after I go get some replacement shock bolts. Lost one when I was out yesterday.
Thanks again both you guys!! When I get this nailed and cleaned up I will post some more pics.
Thank you,
me

 

[Michael Mayben]

Great! The bushing is in place! And yes...it's bronze, but sometimes appears near black due to oxidation and lube oil varnish.

Here's a pic of what the bushing looks like when removed, sorry for the quality but ya git tha drift! Notice the serrations on the circumference, that's what is supposed to retain the bushing when pressed into position.

Edit! I'm having issues with my isp, for some reason I'm not able to send up attachments in either email or forum posts...I'll try again later.

Depending upon which tooth ya use for the distributor-to-cam alignment, any plug wire position can be any cylinder number ya want (choice of 8 of course!). Obviously the dui plug cables don't allow much fudge factor without re-labeling. But the labels are just convenience items only anyway.

A sixpack sez ya end up with a base timing factor of 10*>12*btdc!

 

[Eric VanBuren]

Glad to help.

Yes the labels are just for convenience.

Except for the odd-fire v-6s, on all the old school carb rigs you can stab the distributor with anyone of the terminals as #1, or #8 with the sv, except of course when you got a deal like this where you only have a couple degrees of dist adjustment and then you just gotta make the best fit like you just did.

 

[skyoung]

Looking @ you dui installation I put mine in just 180 off from yours, maybe mine is not properly installed? The ign wire on on the opposite side, as well the vacuum I am having problems with a new high torque starter and that is probably why the new starter will not start the morot, see my post regarding high torque starter in the main forum.


Steve

 

[Michael Mayben]

This afternoon, we'll be jerking a modded hei distributor (not dui-brand) from a 345 because of a very similar "timing" issue. That is in preparation for diagnosing a potential "poor valve train lubrication" situation as described in this thread:

http://www.forums.IHPartsAmerica.com/carb-tech/1016-waynes-Holley-470-truck-avenger.html

We're gonna install a pertronix-converted distributor in this motor so that we can make it perform as it should. Once all the possible problems are worked out, then we'll home in on a correct install of the hei distributor which will most likely involve a water neck swap as previously described. I know that currently the hei distributor is not installed in the correct position, therefore there is no way that base ignition timing can be set where it needs to be.

All this May not be completed in today's session...but I will have some info on this hei stuff to post by tomorrow morning along with pics.

Based on the amount of email I get on this subject backchannel, yawl are not the only folks having problems with this ignition conversion! But there are many "homebrew" hei conversions out there also so let's not make generalization regarding the "dui" version!

The hei distributor (or any distributor) can be installed in many actual positions, ya just have to verify that the plug wire installation sequence is correct for the firing order and direction of rotation! The problem with the large cap hei system is finding the right position that allows component clearance and adequate range of rotation for setting base timing!

A stock compression sv motor is not anywhere close to "difficult" to crank, a motor in average condition with an average starter motor, will draw only 85>135 amps during the crank cycle if it starts fairly quickly. Higher current requirement indicates an electrical issue in the starter system that needs to be diagnosed!

The legendary "hot start" issue regarding some IH engines pertains primarily only to the Scout II/sv engine combo due to the run of the stock exhaust system. That said, the "remote" starter relay addition is always an inexpensive upgrade to the electrical system on any IH platform, if for no other reason than ease of connecting a remote starter switch when working under the hood!

 

[GK_Slick]

Thank you again michael. I did get mine in and working beautifully with your and ericvbs' help. Now I need to dial in my carb and probably get my 727 rebuilt. When it is cold the motor wants to stall on take off and when it is warm it wants to idle faster. Plus I think I can feel the tranny slipping as I take off as well. As to the hei format, it just happens mine was a dui but now that it is in and appears to be working fine I am not dissatisfied with it at all(except maybe the price!!). Also another project coming up is body repair to the lower rear corners on the hard top so I can put that back on. Doesn't help they have begun to salt the roads here (greater seattle area) again in the icy weather. I had more rust come up the last time I drove in the snow here than in the last 16 years I have owned this scoutii. Enough rambling for now.

 

[Michael Mayben]

Thanks for the update!

We got lottsa Holley 2210-related posting in the carb forum so check 'em out! And your "symptoms" indicate a carb freshening is called for. Both conditions you describe indicate a vacuum leak or extreme leaness. Now that your ignition system is up to snuff, that's simple to deal with!

I wager a sixpak all your tranny needs is a "service". That means drop the pan and change the filter. While in there ya need to adjust the low/reverse band (the adjustment is inside).

After the pan is back on, you can adjust the front or "kickdown" band from the outside. It's a real bitch to get to onna sii and it's easier to remove the tranny hump inside for access. But on your rig, if the exhaust pipe is not in the way on the driver side, ya can get to it from underneath.

If ya want help with that, post a new thread in the transmission forum and I'll post a writeup with pics. It's a messy job no matter how ya approach it. I "trained" Matt g. Inna 727 service procedure here at binder university just this past Saturday!

 

[78ScoutII]

Ok, so here is some progress. I hope I will be able to post these pics in here. I put the different neck on so I was able to point the elec hookups forward and make clearance for the air box. Now I am still only getting a half inch or so of adjust ability. Now I guess I am hoping it will be close enough to time and if not, what can I do? Can I move the dis. A tooth?
If I point the power/tach hookups forward I run into the hose. I wish I was better at this work around stuff and had more mechanical experience but I think I can do alright. Of course I could maybe get a different hose so I could point it forward and get that hold down out from in that nook between the housing and bypass hose.

GK and guys, where did you get the Offset Water Outlet Housing? Installing DUI on '78 ScoutII, with Holly 2300 Sniper, and my stock water outlet housing is hitting the elec terminals on my DUI.

 

[GK_Slick]

GK and guys, where did you get the Offset Water Outlet Housing? Installing DUI on '78 ScoutII, with Holly 2300 Sniper, and my stock water outlet housing is hitting the elec terminals on my DUI.

Sorry for my late input, life you know.
I believe I got mine here at IHpartsAmerica years ago when it was under a different name, 17 years ago. I've been raising a kid and fighting to survive during that time so all I have or remember about this particular swap is negative opinions, but hopefully the folks here at IHPA will chime in and help out.

 

[ihpartsjeff]

I didn't go back and reread what was previously posted in this thread, but the needing of an offset water neck is not true. The stock one that came on most Scout II's works just fine. Is it tight on clearance? Why yes it is. But the distributor does fit and has enough room to make minor timing adjustments, which is all you need.

 

[1975IH200]

The Davis Unified Ignition "DUI" HEI Distributor fits just fine with either water neck, in my experience.
Plenty of room to rotate the distributor housing for timing adjustment with either upper water outlet.
Photo attached of each.

1st: with 90° Water Outlet....

2nd: with Offset Water Outlet....

You're Welcome !