Back Fire right at switch over temp

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IceFyre13th

Member
Sorry, but the afi techs are not my favorite people right now......:arf::arf::arf: bad instructions, act like I am bothering them when I call to ask a question......and wont tell me where to send my distributor core to get my core charge back......:prrr:

basic issue, and only issue, is when the engine gets to 160-175 degrees and I leave from a stop I get a backfire.

It only backfires at this time, when "cold" its fine, when at normal operating temperature its fine. Only when it is passing the open / closed loop temp it will do this.

Any ideas? The afi guys have no idea.......
 
Have you logged data yet? If so could you please post the log and blm table. From there we will do our best to help you determine what might be wrong.

As for the core please return it to IH Parts America and put on the outside of the box "core return".
 
Thanks Jeff I will ship you the core soon.

As to logging the data, not yet. Would it be possible to post the "step by step" instructions to me so I do it right. Start with what I need to load onto my laptop to do this. (I have the usb cable and the cd from afi, but the "instructions" are as clear as mud on how to do it and what to load and run).

Thanks again for the help, IHOnly rocks!!!:thumbsup:
 
I think I found the problem, I had a small exhaust leak at the flange.....one of those leak----not leak types depending on its mood.....so before I started the data logging I changed the header gaskets...........

Now the problem seems to have gone away...........have not done the datalog yet as it took me all weekend to do the header gaskets (percy's carbon xx gasket material and had to cut my own, http://www.percyshp.com/techinfo/xxcarbon/techinfo.pdf ) the cut material has sharp edges, ask my fingers....lol

of course the leaking side was the side with the o2 sensor.....

Will do the datalog as soon as I can
 
Here are the log files (finally got time to do it)

the backfire seems to be gone since I fixed the header gasket. It stumbled once at the crossover temp but that's been it.


Let me know what you recommend for a nest step.

Thanks again.
 

Attachments

  • 20111226_160550_LOG.txt
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  • 20111226_171018_BLM.txt
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You have a few things that need attention.

The system is showing pretty Rich so first I would check the fuel pressure on the inlet and return lines.
You should be 13+- on the inlet and ~0 on the return.

If those are good then you need to perform the initial set up procedures.
The iac is going to 0 at idle when warm and the tps is too low.
So the min idle screw needs to be backed out and then the tps needs to be set to 0% or .54v when viewed on the sensors page of winaldl.

Something else to keep in mind is that a vacuum leak can cause the incorrect o2 readings just like an exhaust leak. So make sure all is good.

Once all is corrected or verified good then log again. Then the fuel will need to be adjusted and a new chip burned.
 
Have a fuel pressure gauge coming in tomorrow. If I need to adjust the pressure how is this done?. The tps and idle screw I know how to do.
 
I'm not looking for you to adjust the pressure.
I'm looking for a pressure problem like a restrictive return line.

The system should have been installed with 3/8 feed line and 5/16 return line.
If the return is restrictive it causes the feed pressure to rise.
If the inlet pressure is high then disconnect the return line from the outlet and run a hose straight to a bucket and recheck the inlet pressure.

Don't change settings until we know for sure that it needs it.

There is a FAQ at the beginning of the forum for injector removal and regulator adjustment procedures.

You May want to look at some of the other faqs while your at it to get a little more familiar with the system.
 
3/8" stainless hard line for both the pressure side and return, the flex lines are 6 an.

I have gone over the FAQ's, I ask more for documentation and to help others who May have a similar issue so they don't have to go back and forth between web pages.

You are a great help and I do appreciate it (unlike the company that made my system, and I see why hamilton fuel injection is now the supplier to ihon).

Unlike obdii the chip will need to be burned out of the pcb (I have worked on obdii systems in the past and they are easier in my opinion), as the original company has let me in the dark to fend for my own I will have to either have this done, or do it my self.

Doing the conversion from old bulb erase eeprom to upgrade to an eeprom or flash chip that is electronically erasable is well within my skill set (and in one of your FAQ's). I built a mega-squirt iii ecu for my sand rail and programmed it, yes a "tuner" did the dyno tuning for me but I got it to fire up. Do you sell a kit for this or am I going to have to source the parts and software myself? Or would you rather me send you my ecu and you do it?

My problem is this particular system, it is not what I expected it to be.

This system (fine I will say it, the afi system) was more or less advertized as "plug and play", it is far from that (unfortunately most others would just let it be as "it runs"). The customer service is non existent and they are rude to the customer when you do get them to answer questions. The instructions are wrong in many areas (maybe because they use one set for all of the versions they sell), and the word "complete" was used to describe the system, minus the coil needed, minus the fuel lines, minus a mounting bracket......it has now doubled in cost just to get it running and is going to cost me even more yet. The mega-squirt iii kit was more complete and easier to get running right (and I had to build the pwa too).

So I am sorry if I am asking the questions answered in the FAQ's......but I feel a post is more valuable it the reader does not have to jump from page to page. Hopefully afi will see this and learn from it too.
 
I understand where your coming from but from my pov, I spent a lot of time writing the faqs so guys could follow them if wanting to put a system together themselves. So to repeat everything I have already written seems not needed. Faqs are just that, frequently asked questions. Most already have or should have reviewed them prior to posting.

If time is an issue, I now provide the same system in kit form.
But like afi I don't provide the coil. Mostly because I have found not everyone likes to use the factory GM coil that I recommend. A lot of guys have already spent money on a different coil.
But the coil still needs to meet the specs for electronic ignition and have a primary resistance of about 1 ohm or less. I do offer standard coil or GM coil connections.

I also do not include fuel line.
Mainly because the system can be installed on many different IH or amc vehicles. The fuel line requirements can not all be met by simply including 8ft of coiled up steel line or worse, 10ft of rubber hose.
So the price is kept lower and allows the installer the option of their fuel line of choice. You used nice 3/8 stainless, so even if line was included, it probably wouldn't have been used.
But, the more poor choices of fuel line selection I have seen installed by some owners is leading me to believe I need to raise the price and include the line just to make sure the proper line is used.
Most IH owners want to save money. So I try to keep the price down. If an IH owner has the money to buy anything he wants, then he is probably going to pay someone to install it anyways.

I have never seen a system not work that was installed properly. I have seen many system not run properly. But all were due to installation errors.
I have worked hard to make my system as "user friendly" as I can.

As for your chip....well lets just say that one was borrowed from me many years ago when I was starting to tune these systems for the IH engine.

Jeff and myself can program chips for your rig. If you bought the system from Jeff then he May be able to just burn a new one with the proper corrections and mail it out to you.
If the current chip is way off then it May take a couple logging sessions to get it dialed in.
 
Fuel pressure right at 13 psi in and 0 psi out.

Tps now set at .2 (this was the closest I could get it, the next closest was -.3).

Min idle screw backed out )I can hear the iac working now, even feel it....yet the data log looks like it is still 0) bet I am reading it wrong...

Data logs attached.

Thanks again...
 

Attachments

  • 20111230_202042_LOG.txt
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  • 20111230_214254_BLM.txt
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Good job on the adjustments and log.
I'll try to find that old bin file and see if I can make the tweaks to it.

If not we May have to start with a fresh bin that May be a little closer.
 
Could I request a FAQ......how to read the log file.

Let me know what to do next. Btw, I do not expect your work to be free. So let me know what I will owe you.


Thanks again
 
I have been reading your programming FAQ and wading through the moates.net site (why do web-site designers have to make sites hard to navigate).

One part of me wants to get this apu1 autoprom package: usb version [apu1] - $329.00 : moates.net And do it myself.

The other part of me is saying, "for one use only, are you nuts".

It does make sense to change the chip to the 27sf512 version though, and I like this idea too g2x TBI-type switching adapter [g2x] - $40.00 : moates.net

What, if anything, would you have me do bill?
 
I wouldn't do anything yet.

I talked to Jeff and the best route is for me to send him a fresh bin. He will burn it to a chip and send it to you.

If you need some tweaks from there then you can buy a programmer or just hire me to make the adjustments and send you a fresh chip directly. Still cheaper and easier then buying the equipment just to tune 1 vehicle.

We just want to get you going.
 
Awesome, thanks guys....that dose seem the best way to go for me as well.

While talking to the guys at work about my Scout one of the electronic guys said that we might have an old chip burner, we found a xeltek superpro II universal programmer (so old its programming software is for dos). Wonder if it could burn a chip? superpro - xeltek inc. :: superpro software download center Lists this towards the bottom of the page.

We even have a computer with a parallel port.....:icon_rotate:

the hardware we design today uses flash memory and windows ce os, this burner and computer are kept for our legacy product. (I am the Mechanical engineer for a software company).

Still something I am not that comfortable doing, but like anything I May play around one day...
 
Tell your buddies the chip can be upgraded to a 27sf512 eeprom. :cornut:

I have the specifics in the FAQ's in the injection forum of the binderplanet.
 
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