350 Buck Truck Project engine revival

Someone "might" still have oem-type shim head gaskets for a 304 (or any other sv motor) but I certainly don't look for those! They can be very difficult to make "seal" (and must be retorqued also). Those are designed for new head/block surface interface, or head/block that has been resurfaced to a "factory" surface finish specification.

The tiny difference in compression ratio which might be calc'd through the use of the current tech composition head gaskets is negligible except for a motor that is being blueprinted and is a cost-no-object build.

And if the block is decked, and the heads shaved to "level", then that also changes the seating angle of the intake manifold. If the shim head gaskets were to be used, the intake would need to be angle cut also. With a typical head resurfacing just to clean up corrosion spots, the manifold does not need to be angle cut if the commonly-available composition head gaskets are used.

Many of the engine rebuild practices described in the ihc-published service references were certainly valid back in the day when dealership mechanics did engine builds and had all parts needed easily available from many sources.

But 30+ years later/today, gasket technology alone has taken enormous strides, even for these old beater motors, an example is the composition "permatorque" stuff used by fel-pro and other suppliers. Same for those mylar shim gaskets found in the oil pump rebuild kits. Same for the type of composite rubber/silicone/teflon used in the "o" rings and crankshaft seals. "cork" gaskets are no longer cork, but a rubber/cork composite material which is superior in every way to plain cork.
 
What's the best way for cleaning those 1.375" holes on the water pump housing for the water tubes and orings? I have a fair amount of rusty buildup in there even after tanking and blasting. I was thinking of taking my dremel tool with a wire wheel to it but I was wondering if there was a preferred method.



By the way I opted for the most affordable engine enamel available locally at carquest which for me was plastkote #206 Ford red. Don't hate me for it. Some IH folks consider it a very near match.
 
rusty Scout said:
what's the best way for cleaning those 1.375" holes on the water pump housing for the water tubes and orings? I have a fair amount of rusty buildup in there even after tanking and blasting. I was thinking of taking my dremel tool with a wire wheel to it but I was wondering if there was a preferred method.
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I use a scratch awl or pick to start with to grub out the heavy crust and dig into the corners. Just scratch hell out of the stuff to loosen up.

Then follow with the carbon steel brushes in the dremel (or similar) handpiece. Then I follow up with a homebrew "split shaft" chucked in a die grinder with 220 grit abrasive strip wrapped around tightly and inserted into the holes to "hone" the interior to allow a nice seat for the new "o" rings. Down the line. I use the same process on the head(s) also after the machine shop cleaning session.
 
I used one of those 80 grit sand paper flapper wheels on my cheap northern tools dremel type tool with great results on those rusted out water tube holes. I used minimal pressure to ensure that only the rust and corrosion was removed.

I went with the plastikote 206 Ford red engine enamel because I heard that it was so close to the original engine paint that you cannot tell the difference. Of course I am the type of guy that sweats little details like this so I did a little extra investigating here. My only other experience with painting engine parts on my IH stuff was with case IH iron gard enamel red that I bought out of state at a case IH dealer I happened upon on a road trip to bellingham, wa. I painted the thermostat housing stuff with it and it held up great. It closely matched the original paint on the intake manifold. Unfortunately I could not locate any of this caseih paint nearby.

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I consulted with erik on this and found that he went with the krylon farm and implement paint. I picked up a can of this at osh and was skeptical because it seemed to be very purple/bugandy-ish. No where close to the orignal paint leftovers on the intake.

This photo does not show it very well but the kyrlon is much darker. Its the swatch on the right.
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I don't think that IH used the same paint for the exterior of tractors and engines. I also think that the caseih red is as close as you are going to get to what they used 30 yrs ago at the factory on engines. The krylon is much darker than the caseih paint.

One comment that my car buddy eldo had was the caseih red thermostat housing might have more cherry in it than the plastikote valve covers and oil pan.

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Case closed for me on the engine paint selection. The only thing that is going to get painted with that krylon IH red is my floorjack and hi-lift.
 
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I could not agree more with Robert kenney's cam choice. Long before there was internet, and boards like this, I threw a dart and installed that same isky 256 grind in my 345. A great choice for these engines. Will give you a batch of diesel torque from 400 rpm on up. Even my wife can't stall it! Plus, through a quality rebuilt q-jet, it passes (or it used to, its a '74) smog with room to spare. I had several "techs" crawl under it looking for the cat. I guess the q-jet looked enough like a t-quad for their visual inspection.... But I digress.
You won't be unhappy with this choice. Buy the lifters, put in new springs and umbrella seals and oh yeah, degree it in. You'll not want to retard the cam timing. Torque is good. You'll like it.
 
I am still on the fence with the cam selection. Going with a stock cam in a low budget no frills rebuild with the stock 2210c carb will be fine for my application. I am under the impression that if I do not modify/improve the heads, intake manifold(rpt 4bbl manifold) and new 4bbl carb ( a combination that will kill my budget at this time) then I will not really be able to cash in on the qualities of a better cam.

I guess what I need to hear before I go with a slightly better cam is that someone rebuilt their 304 bone stock with a bone stock cam...wasn't happy with the performance...dyno'ed it with the bone sock cam....changed the cam with the mild 256 isky...dyno'ed it again.... And found in doing so a vast improvement in driveability, gas mileage, vacuum readings and performance dyno numbers.

Don't get me wrong I really appreciate everyone's input on cams and I am not out to prove anyone wrong. I just have not fully made up my mind yet on which cam. Personally I want to be able to experience this truck in bone stock fashion for nostalgia reasons. And if that turns out to be a sucky idea then I can always change the cam later in the truck and come forth to tell everyone how wrong I was.

Hey micheal and Jeff how does this sit with you guys?
 
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I stand corrected on cam choice. I just spoke with my machinist again and it turns out he thought all along that this motor was out of a heavy duty low geared ranch truck that will spend its life putting around a ranch at low speeds not a 1/2 ton pickup 4x4 with 3.54 gears I intend to take on long road trips. He agreed that the isky cam upgrade would be worth while and now is the time to do it. Originally he was a nay sayer on the mild cam.
 
I was told that the parts are arriving this week and that I should get everything back by the 15th of jan.

One thing that is not crystal clear to me is the process of degreeing the cam. The isky 256 grind cam was ordered. I assume that dialing it in will require jumping a tooth on the timing set or installing an offset key. For those who have gone this way before me can you describe the process and what I will need besides a degree wheel to get it right.

Thanks
 
Can you describe the process of making a custom offset crank key? Size, material, machining?

Would you consider fabbing one up if I need it?

Are these offset keys available from IH Parts America?
 
I built an indexing fixture specialy fir the IH keys and use a mill. I dial in what ever degree is needed. I have made them for people before. I don't make a habbit of it but after you install it and degree it let me know how many degrees at the crank it is off and which direction either the event is late (retarded) or early (advanced) and I can make one for you. I talked to Jeff about them but don't see the volume for him to stock them. Maybe that will change. Nothing availible retail that will work.

You can check the intake lcl but just measure intake open and close locations @ .050 tappet lift. Same info but those events are the most important and quicker to read directly at the degree wheel.

Pictures of my standard degreeing setup in an IH 4 cylinder click here. http://www.forums.IHPartsAmerica.com/gas-engine-tech/1205-timing-set-indexing-sv-4-cyl-apps.html
 
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Man this project is dragging on. My engine builder is actually a buddy of my father and it seems that this engine is more of a filler project/trade. Its taking a long time but were only getting charged for parts at cost and only part of the labor.

Besides the process of degreeing in the cam the only other thing on my mind is the state of the rocker arm assemblies. The rocker shafts show very little wear but the whole setup is screwy in my book because they are boat style rockers on a 9 stand setup. The concern here being that these boat rockers are jammed between 9 rocker stands. Can I get away with this setup? Anyone ever dealt with a setup like this?
 
rusty Scout said:
man this project is dragging on. My engine builder is actually a buddy of my father and it seems that this engine is more of a filler project/trade. Its taking a long time but were only getting charged for parts at cost and only part of the labor.

Besides the process of degreeing in the cam the only other thing on my mind is the state of the rocker arm assemblies. The rocker shafts show very little wear but the whole setup is screwy in my book because they are boat style rockers on a 9 stand setup. The concern here being that these boat rockers are jammed between 9 rocker stands. Can I get away with this setup? Anyone ever dealt with a setup like this?
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I would hell offa lot rather have boat rockers onna nine stand setup than the cheep version with five stands and spacer springs!!! I see this quite often...I have no doubt that this was a phased in kinda deal back at the point of production originally and is not a "clean" cut-off as the parts lists and service letters allude to. And any aftermarket parts lookup regarding this cannot be trusted, they didn't build these engines!


The big issue here is the correct orientation of the rocker stand depending upon which rockers you end up using. That means...oil holes up or oil holes down.
I prefer not to use the boat rocker sets if I have the option. That is why I collect and recondition all the welded rockers I can find!
 
That rocker setup is ok so long as the index groove on the rocker shaft end is on the bottom. The oil hole that corresponds with each rocker in your case needs to be on the bottom also.

Let me know on the offset key and I can help there.

On the boat ra's I like to use the spring to separate them but the solid spacer works, just make sure the arms can float on the shaft side to side and not bind into the solid spacer. You can adjust the location of the stands slightly to set the spacing if needed, simply loosen the stand bolt and tap the stand as required with a piece of hard wood and a hammer then re tighten. Hard to tell the lack of float from a valve loading the rocker but you can see the clearance between the parts or wiggle the spacer. The spacing issue can exist even with the welded ra's.
 
This thread should be renamed "3500 buck truck project" because I received my rebuilt engine on Thursday feb 24 2010 with a $2648 bill. Hopefully I will find the time to go over the details of that bill sometime soon but for now I am going to fast forward because whats done is done.

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My engine builder's shop is located in the same building as my dads machine shop so we grabbed it with the cherry picker and wheeled it into our shop.
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Easier said than done. When we hauled the cherry picker down to the shop in a trailer the boom accidentally fell all the way to the raised position popping a snapring in the hydraulics that kept the seal in place. Of course we found this out when we were trying to lift the engine off the engine guys work table. Pump pump pump dam this thing is hardly doing anything and its not holding???? We were barely able to get it off the table and onto a palette placed on the feet of the cherry picker but it worked. A couple of hours rebuilding the hydraulics and we were back in business and able to get the 304 on the engine stand that afternoon.

So in the last few days I was able get some paint on the block and install the timing gears. Part of the high price of the bill was that I had them assemble most the short block.

Yesterday I went about degreeing the cam to make sure it was timed properly. After verifying tdc using the positive stop method on #8 we found that at .050 lift on the intake of #8 we got a reading of 9 degrees after top dead center.
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The cam card specs for this isky 256 supercam are -11btdc which now I finally understand also means 11 atdc so we should have a total of 2 degrees advance using this new engine pro timing set.

The original timing set minus a bunch of teeth on the cam gear was an IH oem r2 set.

Now that this is behind I feel I should remove the cam and re-verify that the cam bearings are set just right and the holes are matched in size with the oil galleries and that the rear cam bearing is not over lapping too much at the rear of the engine. Dremel tool and aircraft drills at the ready.
 
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I certainly agree regarding verifying the cam bearing install steve! After talking with ya I understand the trust ya have in the folks that did your work...but now that you know what to look for, we'll be standing by to see how they did!

I know Robert is real interested in the outcome of your cam dial-in...he's been working directly with the iskenderian folks on that exact subject recently!!
 
Here is a piece of advice regarding isky customer service: ask for ron iskenderien ....

Because another fellow tried to steer us down the wrong path telling us that our cam card was wrong. Three phone calls later and ron answered the phone out of the blue and set us straight, spent longer than he should have explaining cam science and verifying the cam card was indeed correct. Ron thanks again.

That other guy must have been an in-law or something.
 
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rusty Scout said:
here is a piece of advice regarding isky customer service: ask for ron iskenderien ....

Because another fellow tried to steer us down the wrong path telling us that our cam card was wrong. Three phone calls later and ron answered the phone out of the blue and set us straight, spent longer than he should have explaining cam science and verifying the cam card was indeed correct. Ron thanks again.

That other guy must have been an in-law or something.
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Ron is Robert's contact point.
 
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Cam bearing holes and placement looking excellent. I believe that the clevite 77 set was used. Probably not everyone's first choice but I left that up to my builder. Silvolite 0.020 pistons were also used.

Just finishing the painting of the block in the next few days and pondering that 2 degrees of advance on that cam.


 
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Cam bearings are cam bearings as long as they fit the holes properly and the spit holes align as they should!

Whether the cam bearings are the "one-piece" shell version or the oem-style finger joint type is not why they fail. And in my opinion, if one of these engines is maintained throughout it's life in a proper fashion, which virtually none we see today were, the cam bearings themselves won't exhibit any measurable wear.

And durabond is not the only manufacturer worldwide of one-piece shell cam bearings for these engines, nor does the clevite "brand" hold sway regarding finger joint bearings.
 
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