152 to 196

K

kingkonger708

Member
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I have a 62 s80 and my 152 recently blew up. I probably paid more than I should for a great condition 196 (from an 800) that has 30k miles on it, with perfect compression.

I'm in the process of doing the engine swap and have two questions for the pro's:
1. I recently (500 miles before it blew up) did a tune on my 152 with new plugs, wires, cap and rotor. Can I swap any of this onto the low mileage 196?
2. I plan on doing a 32/36 weber swap, and a petronix upgrade. My thought is to get the 196 running as is, and add the carb once it is running as is (take it one step at a time, get it running then do the mod's). Should I wait on the petronix until I do the carb update?

Holla back!
 
As I mentioned the other night, lets get the motors swapped and running, then go from there. The tune up parts, among the other good parts from the 152 blown motor, will be swapped over to the 196. You already are getting a screaming deal on having this motor swap done. Lets get you up and running before we get into future upgrades. Hopefully, if I don't get any furthur interruptions this weekend, I will do what I can to get most of the swap done.
 
Scooter is right... Imo

install it and run it with the parts that you have from the 152 and after you verify the 196 is a solid engine then consider the upgrades...

You May be happy with the 196 as is..
 
Oh this is such a fun swap! You'll love the additional firewall clearance at the rear of the cylinder head/valve cover that the taller engine gives you.:icon_blaugh: getting the bell bolts out and then back in and torqued down is a true delight as well. Sounds like a good donor engine though, and the power increase is always a good thing for that crazy-wide gear split 3spd trans. Good luck and have fun with it, fellers!
 
I'm puzzled. I keep reading about the horror of not having the firewall notch with a 196. I once had a '65 model 80 and swapped in a 196 from a model 800. I was oblivious to the firewall notch modification until decades after I sold the rig. But after the install I once had to remove the valve cover and head. I recall the valve cover was very close to the firewall and removal May have been a little fiddly, but I never thought that I discovered a "doh!" moment and considered pounding out the firewall! Rig had its original old body mounts, so that couldn't be the answer.

I'm not minimizing the need, as the factory wouldn't have gone to the trouble if there was a simpler work-around.

My only b*tch with the setup was getting the starter out of an early. Now there Was a headache!

?????
 
In kingkonger's Scout 80, the starter is easy to swap out and move around the current single exhaust tube. Nothing puzzling about the clearance issue at the firewall for the valve cover. The current 152 is a tight space as it is. And not much fun at all to deal with. I'll keep my disgruntled comments to myself on this. I'll just say that I will be glad when this project is finished. So I can move onto my own rig.
 
Indeed fun fun :icon_eh: after two days of pulling out 6 bolts from bell housing the ole blown up 152 is finally out. Oh joy joy.

I'm kinda thinking that this motor drank some water when it decided to die out. Oil was slightly milky when drained.

Anyways. It's looken like next weekend the funness of the install of the 196 continues. Worken 12 hours at my full time job takes a toll from wrenching on these ole iron heavies.

Preview of work in progress
 

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Good work scooter! I can only imagine what it took for those 6 bolts, I lost some skin just putting a new starter in a few months ago...
 
scooter said:
indeed fun fun :icon_eh: after two days of pulling out 6 bolts from bell housing the ole blown up 152 is finally out. Oh joy joy.

I'm kinda thinking that this motor drank some water when it decided to die out. Oil was slightly milky when drained.

Anyways. It's looken like next weekend the funness of the install of the 196 continues. Worken 12 hours at my full time job takes a toll from wrenching on these ole iron heavies.

Preview of work in progress
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You putting that dirty ole motor in that nice looking Scout ? Jeff( I know "not enuff time ")
 
fdchappie said:
scooter, what are you complaining about? You didn't even have to remove the hood. :smilewinkgrin:
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Now, that made me laugh. Thanks, I needed it. Only if you knew how I really felt. Lol you shoulda seen the tight squeeze of trying to pull out the replacement 196 from a fairly new yoda land cruiser. I'm so spoiled with using my electric over head hoist, that I forgot how to use my manual cherry picker. It's like who uses those things any more.

Jeff campbell said:
you putting that dirty ole motor in that nice looking Scout ? Jeff( I know "not enuff time ")
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Yea, uh huh. I'm putting the ole blown up motor back in :dita:















not
That greasy boat anchor hangen off the electric hoist is on it's way to my job sight to be melted back down to be turned into your plumbing sewer pipe. There will be a used 196 going in it's place.
 
scooter said:
now, that made me laugh. Thanks, I needed it. Only if you knew how I really felt. Lol you shoulda seen the tight squeeze of trying to pull out the replacement 196 from a fairly new yoda land cruiser. I'm so spoiled with using my electric over head hoist, that I forgot how to use my manual cherry picker. It's like who uses those things any more.

Yea, uh huh. I'm putting the ole blown up motor back in :dita:















not
That greasy boat anchor hangen off the electric hoist is on it's way to my job sight to be melted back down to be turned into your plumbing sewer pipe. There will be a used 196 going in it's place.
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Who uses a manual cherry picker? People like me, just last weekend. And a 196. Oh, to have that electric hoist!
 
I feel privileged to own a hf folding cherry picker. It's quite handy to move this puppy around.
 

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I actually do own a folding hf manual cherry picker, but only had the privilage to use it twice in 3 years. I'm just spoiled with using my electric over head hoist with all the motor swaps I've done in the last three years. Including using the electric hoist for pulling a cylinder head off a 258/4.0 straight 6 to swap heads and head gasket replacement. Also using it today for stabbing in this 4 banger back into kevin's Scout. He actually stopped by the shop last night to hang out for a bit and to kinda freshen up the engine bay while the motor was out. I didn't have my camera handy at the time, or I would have posted up one of him pulling a flinstone when he was hybernating in the engine compartment.
 

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Well, it's alive once again. Finally. Now it needs to go into muffler shop to have the exhaust pipe modified. That's just the given nature of differences about the 196 compared to the 152 that was pulled out. Slightly taller stance in the engine compartment. Roughly about 1/2" gap between exhaust manifold and pipe.

Kingkonger - you can have your Scout back. I don't think I need any more toys to be called my own. Besides, I don't think you would like it too much if I hung on to it and decide to try my version of tree hugging
 
Well, the 196 is running good. But, I'm kinda thinking that the carb May need a rebuild, or some kind of upgrade. Unfortunately I don't know enough, nor have the specs, about the carb that this 196 came with. Slight backfire when came to a stop and when motor is shut off after driving it around the block and upt the street a few miles.

Robert kenney might chime in on this with some info. I'm all ears if ya might have some insight.

I also suggested to kingkonger to do a pertronix upgrade. That should help. It's ussually one of the first things I do in my own scouts if, that is if it hasn't been done so by a po
 
For reference, if the engine photos above are with the carb that is still on the 196, it is a 1920 and that was an original equipment mixer. I could be from another engine as they were widely used across the other big manufacturers...




Clarify for me the symptoms.
It runs hard under acceleration and idles smooth. No noticeable drivability issues? Pcv valve is the right one and functioning?
Under deceleration it pops out of the exhaust?
After shutting of the engine it makes one pop out the exhaust?

Basically you are passing air and fuel into the exhaust system that is subsequently being lit off by the engine running or a very hot exhaust system. Causes are misfiring due to ignition, lean condition due to carb malfunction or air leak. Very hot exhaust system causes are retarded timing.

If that is correct, I would make sure you have the initial timing set right (8-10 initial) for testing and that the mechanical advance is functioning properly.. If you have a timing light with the timing dial back function, disconnect the vacuum advance and plug the hose port on the carb/manifold.. At say 2800-3000 you should see 32-34 degrees of advance.

Make sure you have no vacuum leaks and that you are not lean at idle.
 
Outsatnding. Thank you Robert.

The 196 was purchased from IHPA. On new years eve, I called them to place an order for my own self, and actually had a chance to talk to Jeff regarding the motor. From my understanding, is that everything on the motor is oem straight off the sales floor. Which is what ya see in the photo op that I posted.

You are correct in the symptoms. The pvc on there is what came with the motor, but not sure of the function as of yet. During deceleration, only one or two pops and one pop on shut down, out the exhaust.

I set the timing to 10* before it was driven. I just realized this morning, as I was reading your post, is that I forgot to tighten up the fitting, for the line connecting to carb, on the vacuum advance canister on dizzy. I did plug the vacuum line off the carb while I timed it. If I have time today, I will tighten up that fitting. It was midnight and cold when we were driving it around the block.

If it comes down to any type of misfiring from ignition, I feal that the pertronix will help out. Along with a new coil. The current ballist resistor, which was swapped in from the 152, is broken. I told him about it right before I installed the 196. Plus, some of the wiring connecting the resistor, dizzy and coil aren't much better than the resistor itself.

With it being late in the night last night, and with my un-familiarity with this particular carb, I couldn't see exactly where the adjustments were for aire/fuel mixing. I'm used to worken with the v-8's with the 2 or 4 barrel poppers. What kind of adjustments on the carb I can do?

Also, since kingkonger posted it in his first post, would it be worthwile to just go ahead with the 32/36 weber swap? Or maybe a rebuild of the oem 1920 carb. I ask, due to that when this motor was origanally installed in later model Scout, it mostly sat and used on a farm. From talking with Jeff ismal, this motor only has about 19k miles on it. From the way it idles and driven hard, it's a strong running motor. From my own dealings with the great service from IHPA, and seeing the top quality builds they do, I don't have a reason to doubt anything I hear from them.

Btw - as I typed this, I forgot to mention that I used the dizzy from the 152. I have to dig up the one that came with the 196 initially to finger out why. Old timers disease. Would that be an issue?
 
Just going to quickly touch on your dizzy question at the end, leaving the rest for rk. The only way it would make a difference is with regards to dwell angle. If the dizz you swapped in is a delcotron, the dwell angle is different than what is spec'd for a Holley 4-popper dizz.
 
scoutboy74 said:
just going to quickly touch on your dizzy question at the end, leaving the rest for rk. The only way it would make a difference is with regards to dwell angle. If the dizz you swapped in is a delcotron, the dwell angle is different than what is spec'd for a Holley 4-popper dizz.
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Thank you. I will double check the dizzy. Once I get a chance to pull out the original 196 dizzy, I need to remember why I did the swap. I might see if I can swap it back in, depending on my findings.
 
If the one in it now from the 152 is a delco, its worth keeping. They're better units than the Holley. Dwell should be 72-76* for the delco and much closer to 50* for the Holley.
 
Way cool. Thanks trevor. I'll keep ya posted. Ron gave me a dwel/tack meter not too long ago. I will use it on this 196/152 dizzy when I get a chance this weekend.

Either way, no matter which dizzy is installed, I'm kinda thinking that kingkonger May just go ahead with the pertronix upgrade. Along with the 32/36 carb upgrade. At this point it's basically out of my hands as far as what he really wants to do.

Funny thing. He was here last night with the final buttoning up of his Scout and asked me if it was my Scout, what I would put into this Scout. I replied with "a v-8" :winky:
 
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