starting problem..is it the relay or what?

S

scout44

New member
Btw...I posted this on the other IH sites, because I am desperate! So......

Of course, this always happens when you have a big trip planned..
My '72 Scout II with 345 and a/t will intermittently not start. You can hear the starter relay clicking away under the dash...I pulled it out and I can feel the clicking inside. Also sometimes there isn't a clicking sound at the relay and the engine still won't turn over.
The lead at the starter is tight so it feels like there is a good connection...

Then for no reason whatsoever....it will finally turnover after trying (and swearing).

When I can get it to turn over then....
The battery is fully charged and the alt is charging....there is 12v + at the starter when ignition is on and there is a drop when I can get it to turn over.....then when the engine is running it comes back up.

Is it possible that the neutral safety switch comes into play here too? It's hard to replicate the problem in front of my mechanic and what to try to sort this out before my trip in a few days and have to rent a car.

Thanks all,

eric
 
The item you hear clicking under the dash is not a starter relay unless someone has really screwed things up and added some kind of mechanism.

What is under there is a simple relay used with the nss system for a t-40-7/tf727 autotrans. It's an identical version of the relay used for the horn, those parts interchange. Normal found on the right hand side of the steering column mount under the dash. May be mounted to a bracket or May just be hanging from a pigtail.

If the nss relay clicks, then it's working based upon the correct signal from the nss switch located on the side of the transmission.

A "non-crank" Scout II is a very common item. That is because of the exhaust pipe/manifold run versus the starter assembly. The later Scout II incorporated a cheesy heat shield that was a bandaid for the "hot start " issue that did not take care of the problem totally.

The best thing to do is:

1) verify and clean up the bulkhead connectors and all terminations on both sides of the firewall.

2) add a secondary, true relay to the starter system as described in this thread:

http://www.forums.IHPartsAmerica.co...pgrade-remote-starter-relay-installation.html

This additional starter relay will cure the intermittent hot start issue found on all ihc-produced vehicles (not just on the Scout II).
 
Hi there... Thanks for the quick response... I should have added this info.... I have this problem, mostly when cold and not much when hot, but not even when very hot.. Also yes the relay I mentioned under the dash is identical to the horn relay. What it does sometimes when the problem occurs is click uncontrollably...almost like twitching. Does this extra info help any?

Thx... Eric

michael mayben said:
the item you hear clicking under the dash is not a starter relay unless someone has really screwed things up and added some kind of mechanism.

What is under there is a simple relay used with the nss system for a t-40-7/tf727 autotrans. It's an identical version of the relay used for the horn, those parts interchange. Normal found on the right hand side of the steering column mount under the dash. May be mounted to a bracket or May just be hanging from a pigtail.

If the nss relay clicks, then it's working based upon the correct signal from the nss switch located on the side of the transmission.

A "non-crank" Scout II is a very common item. That is because of the exhaust pipe/manifold run versus the starter assembly. The later Scout II incorporated a cheesy heat shield that was a bandaid for the "hot start " issue that did not take care of the problem totally.

The best thing to do is:

1) verify and clean up the bulkhead connectors and all terminations on both sides of the firewall.

2) add a secondary, true relay to the starter system as described in this thread:

http://www.forums.IHPartsAmerica.co...pgrade-remote-starter-relay-installation.html

This additional starter relay will cure the intermittent hot start issue found on all ihc-produced vehicles (not just on the Scout II).
Click to expand...
 
The wiring back in the day was under sized, your just not getting enough juice to the solenoid. You can start your Scout with a screw driver, ( shorting out the terminal on the starter ) or add a switch with wires off the starter to do the same thing as a screw driver, or add the Ford relay to allow you to start the Scout with a key, as Robert pointed out. Sometimes the starter solenoid is going south, as a couple light taps might get it going. Could be rust, loose, or dirty connections that need to be cleaned and tighten.
 
A few weeks ago I had a new starter put in, replacing the original starter...I had this current problem only a couple of times in several years with the original starter and thought the problem would have been recitified with the new install. The new starter was bought from one of our popular Scout suppliers, so I assumed it was proper rebuilt replacement.
If you think I can get thru a weekend of shorting out the starter when the problem arises then I can handle that.
Thx...eric


Craig said:
the wiring back in the day was under sized, your just not getting enough juice to the solenoid. You can start your Scout with a screw driver, ( shorting out the terminal on the starter ) or add a switch with wires off the starter to do the same thing as a screw driver, or add the Ford relay to allow you to start the Scout with a key, as Robert pointed out. Sometimes the starter solenoid is going south, as a couple light taps might get it going. Could be rust, loose, or dirty connections that need to be cleaned and tighten.
Click to expand...
 
Having a similar problem myself with my 77 SSII (304) manual transmission. I replaced the starter/solenoid and battery. It started giving me intermittant problems about a year ago, and steadily got worse. Would hear a loud click but starter wouldnt turn over the engine. I tried jumping the terminals on the starter, would get sparks and hear it spinning up. Didnt help.

Last weekend had a more knowledgable friend come over and help. After 2hours of searching the only thing he could find was the wire from the ignition switch needed replacing from the firewall to starter (it looked ok under the dash as much as I could tell upside down feet sticking to the roll bar). Once we did that it started turning over most of the time. The ignition switch looked new (truck was restored about 6yrs ago and garage kept since).

Next step is to actually pull the wire from the switch to the firewall??? Its getting rather annoying!
 
Also on rare occasion it will chug on for a few seconds after turning off the key?? Is that a seperate issue?
 
The bulkhead connectors are a very common source of electrical issues. Well worth pulling apart for inspection and cleaning.

The engine run-on is likely a separate issue. Often this is caused by engine idle speed set too high. Bring the engine up to operating temperature, connect a tachometer, and adjust the speed set screw to the curb idle rpm as specified in the field service manual corresponding to your engine/transmission combo.
 
Just fixed that problem on my Travelall. Everything looked good but just the clicking under the dash. After cleaning the battery terminals and then the after market cable terminals, it started right up. Will be taking the rebuilt starter back th the parts store.
 
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