Turning over, and over and over, but not starting.

Gearhead

Gearhead

Member
This is a 1969 800A. The 304 has been overhauled and assembled by me. This includes, the heads surfaced ground to bring back to true flat. The Cylinders have been opened up to .0030” over, new pistons, new mild cam, master kit. The engine turns over but will not start. It has fire. I did not rebuild the Holly 2300, but it was fine prior to engine being pulled. It does have a strong smell of fuel in the top end That lingers. I can see two nice shots of fuel in the carb when the throttle is cycled. The Carb did sit on the shelf with the top and bottom taped shut For a while. Not sure, this might be a carburetor problem.

I have found TDC. I bring #8 up on its compression stroke and the harmonic balancer is lined up right at, or prior to the zero on the scale. I have installed the distributor with the rotor pointing to the #8 cylinder. I have installed it 180 degrees out. The plug wires are installed starting with #8 plug and around the distributor clockwise. The distributor is a Holly style and has a pertronix system. It is fine. I am running out of ideas. I need some help.
 
Determine where you have voltage in the ignition system. You state "starting with #8 and around the dist. clockwise". Is the firing order correct?
 
The firing order is in the correct location, direction. Clockwise. That is what has got me stumped. It is not trying to fire at all. There is spark on the plugs. I pulled #2 plug and grounded it. It has fire for sure.
 
something to consider and think about....

i have had this happen and i was one socket off on the distributor for all plug wires. i moved all plug wires one socket clockwise and it started. i to was sure i had it correct, but i didnt.
 
that is something to consider. Thank You for the suggestion. I am going to recheck the dizzy location and plug wire location.
 
I want to apologize for the slow response. I became busy with other issue and couldn’t get back.

Okay, I re-watched the video and re-checked TDC. I for sure was 180 degrees out. The rotor ended up pointing not towards the water pump bracket bolt, but more between the water pump body and pump dis-charge to the thermostat. When I installed the Distributor cap the rotor is pointing at the #1 location that is molded in for the Chev folks. I started with the #8 plug wire where the rotor stopped and went around from there with the rest.

I have since re-built the Holly 2300. With the air/idle screws out three turns and the timing set at 10 btdc it will run with the manual choke engaged. Choke open it will run rough and die. I believe I still have a timing problem but not sure.
 
are you sure your timing is at 10 BTDC ? it would be really had to set timing with out having the motor idling good and up to operating temp.

how warm do you let the motor get before disengaging the choke ?
 
The motor was warm. The temperature gauge was reading 200, which is also another problem I need to solve as there is a 180 degree thermostat installed. I had just enough time to move the dizzy to 10 btdc before I decided to shut the engine off. The engine was not idling smooth with choke open. with choke engaged it sounded better but was using a lot of fuel.
 
It’s new. The tanks were both removed, cleaned, new level indicator and re-piped. I only filled the left tank with five gallons of gas.
 
Gearhead said:
It’s new. The tanks were both removed, cleaned, new level indicator and re-piped. I only filled the left tank with five gallons of gas.
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That's good to hear. I deal in "bad fuel" and often when a restoration takes place, they forget about the fuel condition.
Have you employed a vacuum gauge during your efforts?
 
What rpms was the engine running at while you were making timing adjustments? When a warm engine won't run without choke applied, that often points to a major vacuum leak or leaks. The engine is able to get air with the choke closed via the leak.
 
I do have a vacuum gauge. I have not put it too use. Today, I plugged off the line I had going to the distributor. It was there for looks more than anything. I don’t have a tach wired into the engine. I can do that though.

Today, much of the same. plugging the carb did seem to help as the engine started with the choke open but still would not stay running. With the choke closed the engine would run. It would kick up in rpm’s and sounded pretty good. When I open the choke the engine dies. This thing is real rich, so I have to figure out why all the fuel. I didn’t have the distributor pulled down to tight, so it moved around on me today. Not sure I am timed that good either.
 
Engine speed is crucial for setting proper static timing. If you have a fast idle situation due to a closed choke, your mechanical advance is kicking in which is influencing your timing. The engine needs to be idling at a speed no greater than 800 rpms to ensure mechanical advance is not kicking in. The over rich condition could be the result of an improper float adjustment or a sticking float needle.
A warm engine with no vacuum leaks will cough, sputter and die when the choke is closed like tossing a wet blanket over a flame. It almost a certainty that you have a leak.
 
Gearhead said:
I do have a vacuum gauge. I have not put it too use. Today, I plugged off the line I had going to the distributor. It was there for looks more than anything. I don’t have a tach wired into the engine. I can do that though.

Today, much of the same. plugging the carb did seem to help as the engine started with the choke open but still would not stay running. With the choke closed the engine would run. It would kick up in rpm’s and sounded pretty good. When I open the choke the engine dies. This thing is real rich, so I have to figure out why all the fuel. I didn’t have the distributor pulled down to tight, so it moved around on me today. Not sure I am timed that good either.
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can you post a vid of it running ?
maybe turn in the idle screws in one turn so they are 2 turns out . i dont know your elevation but in Denver 3 turns would be really rich
will it rev at all with the choke off ? revving it up to say 2K RPM and holding it at 2K gets the carb off the idle circuit and to the jet circuit will it do that ?
 
I believe I found the source of the vacuum leak. I have a hose from the intake manifold to the right bank (even) Valve cover, pcv connection. This still may not be the only one. I plugged the hose off and this did make quite a difference. I could get the motor to at least run with the choke closed about 1/2 way. I did get the motor running with the choke open and it was running pretty smooth. I set the timing at 9 degree btdc and played with the air/idle screws. I did rev it to at least 2k RPM and held it there, all good. Shut it down and tried a re-start. Would not start. I have a vid of the motor running. I just have to figure out how to get it down loaded.
 

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Need to see more pics of the engine from other angles. Usually, the PCV valve is in the rear of the valley pan behind the carb and the flame arrestor is threaded into the right hand/odd numbered bank valve cover. The two devices are similar in appearance, but quite different internally and functionally. The PCV valve has a check ball inside that should rattle when shaken. The flame arrestor is stuffed full if a steel wool substance. A hose running from it should connect to a fitting in the underside of the air filter canister. The PCV valve meanwhile is connected to manifold vacuum. It's important to have a functioning crankcase ventilation system.
 
what's going on there ? i haven't worked on a holley in a long long time, but should there be an idle mixture screw there ? or a vacuum nipple ?

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Let me take a look. I will add more pics of the engine later today. I will all so try and get the vids to load. Based on info from Scoutboy74, I definitely have the PCV valve in the wrong location. The connection on the odd bank exhaust manifold is currently capped off. What should be screwed in at the even bank valve cover?
 
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