Where to go from here?

Thanks Mark. Those number are almost identical to what I had before.

Conrods @ .002, mains @ .0025. Crank does not need a regrind so I guess I did get a little lucky there. It's 10/10 now and while the bearings did show some embedment, the crank was still in great shape. Had it micro-polished for good measure but that's it. My new numbers should be very close to the above numbers but we'll see when I get there. It's getting all new rods/mains of course.

I spent all day helping another binder driver in need so I didn't get anything done on mine. His purrs like a kitten though!

I did get quite a bit cleaned up yesterday afternoon and hope to get a bunch more cleaned up tomorrow. Cam journals will be polished on Tuesday afternoon so I hope to get it in along with the bearings that evening. I think I'm going to test fit it with oil this time as opposed to assembly lube. If it doesn't turn with the slightest pressure, it's coming back out.

Robert, you mentioned using spoon to take out the high spots in cam bearings. I have never seen this done so I have no idea what the procedure is. If you have some time to describe it, that would great.

Thanks,
jason
 
jauringer said:
Robert, you mentioned using spoon to take out the high spots in cam bearings. I have never seen this done so I have no idea what the procedure is. If you have some time to describe it, that would great.

Thanks,
jason
Click to expand...

I see the confusion. A "spoon" in this context, is not one you eat with. Rather it is a tool used specifically to burnish/ smooth/move soft metal around. Also common on aircraft skins to remove scratches.. Working babbitt around to remove /displace high spots is a common use also. Another way to remove high spots is scraping.

Google burnishing or burnishing spoon.
 
Robert kenney said:
I see the confusion. A "spoon" in this context, is not one you eat with. Rather it is a tool used specifically to burnish/ smooth/move soft metal around. Also common on aircraft skins to remove scratches.. Working babbitt around to remove /displace high spots is a common use also. Another way to remove high spots is scraping.

Google burnishing or burnishing spoon.
Click to expand...


Lol, that's funny. I know what you mean now. Thanks for clearing me up.

Jason
 
Ok guys, worked my tail off last night getting the cam and bearings fitted. My new tool worked very good and lining up the bearing oil holes was actually really easy. Every single one is lined up perfectly. There was no drilling required. Deburring the edges and taking down the high spots was what took so long. Once the bearings were fitted and the edges were deburred, I installed the cam and began making note high spots (polished areas). It took several installations to get them all but I can say that my cam spins super easy now. It's much easier than it did the first time. Out of all the reasons that have run through my head for this failure, this is the one I feel most confident in at this point. There were too many high spots on the bearings creating too tight of clearance. The cam had to make some on it's own. I didn't do near the work I did on the last set. I'm not saying this is for certain what happened but the evidence certainly leads me there.

My new cam came in from IHPA right on schedule. The journals look very good right out of the box on this one. I did go ahead and spend the $35 on a micrpolish but I"m not sure I can even tell they did anything. Better safe than sorry. I'm going to post some pictures of them below. Robert if don't mind sharing your opinion on this finish, that would be much appreciated.

There is one concern in all this, my number 5 cam bearing placement. I knocked it in just far enough for the oil hole to line up. It's not a mm further than it has to be but the bearing does stick out a tad into the lifter oil gallery. Robert, I found a picture you posted of the absolute furthest outboard it should be and mine seems to fall in that range. I think I might be ok but I want to make certain. Pictures will be below.

Cam journals (new one on bottom)
100_2399.jpg


100_2400.jpg


Cam bearings fitted:
100_2404.jpg

100_2405.jpg


#5 protrusion. Is it worth knocking those edges down?
100_2413.jpg


Please advise,
jason
 
That rear bearing looks like it is just where I feel it should be.

The journal finish is nice...

Looks like you are good to go, jason!

On a side note, your comment regarding the fit and ease of turning the can is spot on. I think I said this early on that the cam must glide around like on a cushion of oil by finger tip force only. If it is at all stiff it indicates a "0" clearance condition. No clearance = no oil.
 
Good news Robert, thank you!

I should have known better on the last installation. My bare crank spinning smoother than my cam should have been my first clue! :crazy:

I've learned a lesson a will remember it forever.

I notice the rear cam plate has two gasket options. One that has the little "legs" that surround the entire oil valley and one without legs. The gasket is only around a 1/16" thick but the one with no legs looks like it would provide a hair more oil to the liters? Is this a reasonable estimation?

Jason
 
Well, she's back in and broken in! Hopefully the second time is a charm!

Getting everything back together went very smooth. The cam timed exactly the same. My timing gears are retarded so it's installed 1 tooth advanced for a total of 3 degrees advance in the cam.

I went with clevite bearings this go around and actually lost a little clearance. Mains are running at .002 and rods are a hair under .002. (~.00175).

Piston to valve, retainer to seal, and coil bind clearances are virtually identical to my previous measurements.

Break in was performed Saturday night and went very smooth (with the exception of my rear neighbor calling the cops on me.:out:) the oil was drained and filter cut immediately after for inspection. No non-ferrous metals were found and so far things look good. I found a great video made by an airplane mechanic that walks you through filter inspections. After cutting out and inspecting the pleats, he washes the filter media in solvent and then pours it through a blue shop rag. It not only allows you to obtain the big picture of total accumulation but it also give you a chance to save the collection for future comparison. I'm not sure I'll be collecting years worth of filter data but it's certainly not a bad idea for the first few changes. I've never inspected an oil filter prior to this build so I'm really not sure how to completely interpret what I'm seeing, especially on break in when so much is happening. (plus the fact that I'm still cutting the filter with a cut off wheel.). At least a comparison will give me some data I can understand.

At this point that's about it. I broke everything in with the bare minimum installed on the Scout just in case. I'm not just full of confidence at this point and wanted to be able to yank it back out in a flash.

I'll hopefully get everything back together tonight and on the road. I look forward to having it back in the fleet as soon as possible.

I'll post a few pics tonight and I can't thank you guys enough for all the help. The site is a fantastic resource.

Have a good day!
Jason
 
Shoot man, you're going to be a great resource now that
you've been through the IH school of hard knocks. Glad it's back and running. I predict that this round will be a sucess.
 
Robert kenney said:
shoot man, you're going to be a great resource now that
you've been through the IH school of hard knocks. Glad it's back and running. I predict that this round will be a success.
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot Robert. Man if this helps one person from going through the same thing, I'll take it. I have been accused of enjoying to work on my truck more than driving it but this was a little ridiculous.

I hope you're right Robert. I have noticed less oil pressure than I did prior.. I hope it's just from the extra oilier hole I'm using now.:sosp: after about 20-30 minutes of hard driving, it drops to ~ 12-14psi. I put a new gauge in and it's a little harder to read below 20psi but it's right around there. I'm using brad penn grade 1 15w40 vs the 20w50 I was running. I May follow your lead with the vr1.

I know that pressure is good for a 40 year old sv8 but not sure where that falls for a new build? It is quiet, lifters are pumping up very quick in the morning. The one thing I'm certain about at this point is it's performing great. I'm very a happy with the cam & cr bump. Now I just need it too last!

Thanks,

jason
 
I like the fact that you see a small decrease in oil pressure. Simply means you are pushing oil around to the important parts and pieces, namely the lifter galleries. The key is quiet lifters... :winky:

you've got closer rods and mains this time around, from what I gather from your earlier post, I'd stick with the 15-40.
 
Jeff campbell said:
it will if you keep your foot outa it ! " play you pay ! Lol " Jeff:eek6:
Click to expand...

Jeff, you know I didn't do all this just to fart around town!

Robert kenney said:
I like the fact that you see a small decrease in oil pressure. Simply means you are pushing oil around to the important parts and pieces, namely the lifter galleries. The key is quiet lifters... :winky:

you've got closer rods and mains this time around, from what I gather from your earlier post, I'd stick with the 15-40.
Click to expand...

Thank you Robert. You are correct, I lost about 2.5-5.0 ten thousandths on the rods and mains vs the last set. That all makes very good sense.

Jason
 
Okay, 2nd oil change unfortunately, I don't think it looks good.

I cut the filter open with an angle grinder. I tried not pierce it all the way through so I could keep from contaminating the filter as much as possible. (somewhat successful) then I just pried with a screw driver until the top popped off.

Cut the filter medai out with a razor knife, cut it in half, and then spread it out over white paper towels pinning it down with thumb tacks. I let it sit for a bit as it easier to see once it's "dried out" a little. Like I said, I don't think I should be seeing what I'm seeing but who knows, maybe it's ok.

Take a look for yourself.

100_2434.jpg


100_2435.jpg


100_2436.jpg


100_2438.jpg


100_2427.jpg


I don't think I can stand the sight of more cam bearing in my pan.:icon_stressed:


thanks,
jason
 
You know, probably most of that is what was floating around in the oil passages from the previous bearing failure.
 
mrwolf said:
tested with a magnet so you are sure it is bearing material you have found?
Click to expand...

Hey mr. Wolf, I plan on doing that today. It's dried out quite a bit and should be easier to test.

fdchappie said:
you know, probably most of that is what was floating around in the oil passages from the previous bearing failure.
Click to expand...

Hey chappie, I sure wish that could be the case. However, I stripped the block down to nothing, pulled all the gallery plugs and washed it over again as if it had just come back from the machine shop. It was spotless when I put it back together.



Jason
 
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