transmission problem
- Thread starter dutka2678
- Start date
Scoutboy74
Moderator
I've seen your thread on the other forum. That plus the term "drive" gives the nod towards this being an auto, but scooter does bring up a point just for your future endeavors and that is to provide sufficient details upfront in order to minimize guesswork and confusion. These rigs aren't identical and details matter.
Obviously, you are able to start the engine and realize some rig movement, albeit incorrect. So lets begin with starter engagement. When everything is as is should be on an auto-equipped Scout, the starter can only be engaged when the gear selector is in park or neutral positions. So I want you to verify that this is the case with your Scout. If you can get your starter to engage in any other position besides those two, that's a problem.
The next critical step is to correctly determine if the fluid level is within the safe range. There is a specific procedure for doing this. The engine/trans should first be brought to normal operating temperature, which can take as much as 20 minutes of run time to achieve. Next, the rig should be parked on level ground. The gear selector should be slowly cycled through each gear position from p to 1 and back to p again. Then the park brake should be firmly applied and/or wheels blocked to prevent rolling. The engine should be idling at approximately 725 rpms while in park. The gear selector should then be moved to n or neutral position. At this point, you are now ready to pull the trans dipstick, wipe it clean, re-insert and withdraw for a reading. The fluid level should be within the safe range. A reading outside the range in either direction can create erratic trans behavior. The fluid should be bright red in color and not smell burnt or appear frothy, so make note of what you see and smell.
If all the above checks out, the next step is a visual inspection of the shifter linkage movement in relation to gear selector movement. This will require two people. One will need to be under the rig with a good light source trained on the shifter linkage. Once again, take safety precautions to prevent rolling. The engine should be off. What we're looking for is equal travel between the shifter and the linkage. First off, while the selector is all the way forward in p, have the person under the rig make sure by applying pressure to the linkage, that it cannot be moved any further towards the rear of the rig. Then move the gear selector slowly one position at a time towards 1. Have the person underneath listen for the slight click made by each detent position as it is engaged. When position 1 is engaged, have the person underneath apply pressure to the linkage to ensure that it cannot be moved any further forward by hand. If any slop is encountered, the shifter cable will need to be adjusted to allow for full linkage travel.
Bear in mind, the above topics are the only simple external measures that can be addressed. They undoubtedly need to be verified. You should prepare yourself mentally for the strong likelihood of some internal component failure that could range from a valve body malfunction all the way up to needing a complete overhaul. You have your homework assignment. Work through these steps and report back with specific results for each.
Obviously, you are able to start the engine and realize some rig movement, albeit incorrect. So lets begin with starter engagement. When everything is as is should be on an auto-equipped Scout, the starter can only be engaged when the gear selector is in park or neutral positions. So I want you to verify that this is the case with your Scout. If you can get your starter to engage in any other position besides those two, that's a problem.
The next critical step is to correctly determine if the fluid level is within the safe range. There is a specific procedure for doing this. The engine/trans should first be brought to normal operating temperature, which can take as much as 20 minutes of run time to achieve. Next, the rig should be parked on level ground. The gear selector should be slowly cycled through each gear position from p to 1 and back to p again. Then the park brake should be firmly applied and/or wheels blocked to prevent rolling. The engine should be idling at approximately 725 rpms while in park. The gear selector should then be moved to n or neutral position. At this point, you are now ready to pull the trans dipstick, wipe it clean, re-insert and withdraw for a reading. The fluid level should be within the safe range. A reading outside the range in either direction can create erratic trans behavior. The fluid should be bright red in color and not smell burnt or appear frothy, so make note of what you see and smell.
If all the above checks out, the next step is a visual inspection of the shifter linkage movement in relation to gear selector movement. This will require two people. One will need to be under the rig with a good light source trained on the shifter linkage. Once again, take safety precautions to prevent rolling. The engine should be off. What we're looking for is equal travel between the shifter and the linkage. First off, while the selector is all the way forward in p, have the person under the rig make sure by applying pressure to the linkage, that it cannot be moved any further towards the rear of the rig. Then move the gear selector slowly one position at a time towards 1. Have the person underneath listen for the slight click made by each detent position as it is engaged. When position 1 is engaged, have the person underneath apply pressure to the linkage to ensure that it cannot be moved any further forward by hand. If any slop is encountered, the shifter cable will need to be adjusted to allow for full linkage travel.
Bear in mind, the above topics are the only simple external measures that can be addressed. They undoubtedly need to be verified. You should prepare yourself mentally for the strong likelihood of some internal component failure that could range from a valve body malfunction all the way up to needing a complete overhaul. You have your homework assignment. Work through these steps and report back with specific results for each.
Thank you so much for the help. Yes it is an automatic. I took off the pan and changed out the filter and put on a new gasket. The filter seemed to be pretty old. The trans was leaking from the gasket and I am sure the level was low. The dipstick is not original so not sure if it is reading right. I am going to give it another try this weekend. I got my wife to go through the gear when I was under the truck and it seemed like everything was clicking through so I am hoping it was just levels. The pan only had very little metal shaving in it. The color did look a bit dark.
After taking off the pan to change everything, how much atf will I need to put back in?
After taking off the pan to change everything, how much atf will I need to put back in?
Scoutboy74
Moderator
Not the original dipstick...oh boy. Already I have loud alarm bells going off in my head. Correct fluid level is so important. Guessing won't get it done. You need to get the right dipstick and tube. The good news is that this is not an IH specific part. The tf 727 was installed in a multitude of vehicles, mostly of the mopar persuasion. A wrecking yard donor would be perfectly suitable once cleaned up.
I understand you have the pan back on, but considering that most of the fluid has been drained, now would be the perfect time to pull the pan back off and adjust the tension of both bands. This is a routine maintenance task that gets overlooked far too often. The front band adjustment screw can be accessed with the pan in place, but the rear band can only be adjusted with the pan removed. Don't let this opportunity pass you by. The steps for adjusting the bands and the tools required have been well documented by michael mayben in a stickied thread in this trans tech section. Spend some time researching. I can walk you through it as well, if you need further instruction.
I don't suppose you happen to be located in the southern oregon/northern kalifornicate region. Not that I'm an expert, but I have been into these things enough to know what makes them tick. Chances are, there is something wrong inside the trans that can't be fixed by a cable adjustment or getting the fluid level just right. With the fluid drained, you're actually ahead of the game in some respects. If I was able to get my meddling hands on this trans, I think I'd be pulling the valve body out for a thorough inspection, cleansing and reassembly. I just hate to see you dump $40 worth of atf in this thing only to have it behave the exact same way it did beforehand. I've been there done that. It sucks. Can you remember if the old fluid smelled burnt or was any color other than crimson red?
I understand you have the pan back on, but considering that most of the fluid has been drained, now would be the perfect time to pull the pan back off and adjust the tension of both bands. This is a routine maintenance task that gets overlooked far too often. The front band adjustment screw can be accessed with the pan in place, but the rear band can only be adjusted with the pan removed. Don't let this opportunity pass you by. The steps for adjusting the bands and the tools required have been well documented by michael mayben in a stickied thread in this trans tech section. Spend some time researching. I can walk you through it as well, if you need further instruction.
I don't suppose you happen to be located in the southern oregon/northern kalifornicate region. Not that I'm an expert, but I have been into these things enough to know what makes them tick. Chances are, there is something wrong inside the trans that can't be fixed by a cable adjustment or getting the fluid level just right. With the fluid drained, you're actually ahead of the game in some respects. If I was able to get my meddling hands on this trans, I think I'd be pulling the valve body out for a thorough inspection, cleansing and reassembly. I just hate to see you dump $40 worth of atf in this thing only to have it behave the exact same way it did beforehand. I've been there done that. It sucks. Can you remember if the old fluid smelled burnt or was any color other than crimson red?
I went out and bought a torque wrench to tighten the bands. I was doing the first band and it seems to be pretty loose. I read that a loose one should turn 4 to 5 times. I think mine turned more than that. I do not want to tighten it too much. I know it says take it to 72in lbs, should I keep turning or will this break something?
I have the right tube, but the dipstick was rigged. I will try to find a proper dipstick for the refill.
I have the right tube, but the dipstick was rigged. I will try to find a proper dipstick for the refill.
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Scoutboy74
Moderator
Being many turns out means it was likely out of adjustment enough to be considered sloppy. This next part is critical to comprehend and follow. The torque values for setting the band tension are represented in inch pounds, not foot pounds. Inch pound torque wrenches are generally smaller and more expensive than the more common foot pound variety. You can use a foot pound torque wrench only if it has a low enough setting on it to allow for the conversion from inches to feet. 72 inch pounds divided by 12 (inches in a foot) equates to 6 foot pounds, which is not much torque. If your torque wrench doesn't go this low, and many don't, you cannot use it to set your band tension.
Danny Phillips
Member
I also do not have the correct dipstick (Ford). How can you tell if the tube is factory or not? Fortunately my tranny is out on the bench just been resealed. Both bands were very close to proper adjustment. I guess I'll need a trip to the local pick and pull.
Scoutboy74
Moderator
It has a very slender 's' shape with a drilled hole mounting tab that aligns with one of the bell housing bolts. The stick has a safe range that refers to pint measure for topping off and also says to use dexron atf.