Timing and dwell on a 304

michael mayben said:
great!!!!

Both you and wes need to make a Saturday trip up here! We need to install that fresh carb for wes and get it tweeked! Bring both rigs (one can push the other??) and we'll put both on the diagnostic analyzer and look at their heart and lungs!

My wife showed me that you had signed on with IHSTO (she's the club secretary). Thanks for joining us, it's the best money ya could spend considering we charge nothing for joining!!! But she didn't know we were already communicating on the forum here!
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I would love to get my rig up there. Be warned, this Scout doesn't just Mark his spot... He releases a good portion of his bladder.

As far as joining IHSTO... I told wes that I get info from IHSTO once in a while and hadn't figured out why.
 
heath m said:
so, I set the dwell to 30˚, but the timing... Well, I have turned the distributor until the advance?? Hits and won't turn any more. I almost have the Mark showing up on the tick marks. Could it be possible that when we pulled the distributor, it got put back one off or something.

To reiterate, at this point, I cannot dial it in because I need to rotate it clockwise, but have run out of room. Ideas??
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That "one tooth off" deal describes exactly whatcha got going on!!!

Hell I do that nearly every time I stab a distributor and I'm supposed to know how to do this stuff!

Todd and I fired off the hotrod Ford fe 390 motor we've been building for the last three months for the first time last nite. I told him that no doubt I stabbed the distributor wrong and he knows how I am about that! But the bitch fired instantly and sounds like a top fuel hemi!!! First time I've hit the stab right inna long time! Just ask wayne:

http://www.forums.IHPartsAmerica.com/gas-engine-tech/1016-waynes-non-oiler-392-a.html
 
I have no idea what to set the timing at. So, I set it to 0˚tdc and headed out. It ran decently, but wanted to die at stops. I ran for about ten minutes on the road and came back.

When I checked the timing now, it was around 30˚ btdc. I started turning it in to 0˚ tdc again, but it ran like crap. It seems to run best around 15˚ - 20˚ btdc. I have searched the forums for a guideline on what to set the timing to, but have not found any answers yet.
 
Go back to post #2 in this thread and review the "pertronix" deal regarding power timing the engine. Then do it since ya can now drive it! Wes got kinda "trained" in that process a few weeks back, though we didn't actually go out and do it since it was raining! We did do it on the sample 196/Scout 80 we had the engine analyzer connected to...but I think wes was asleep on his feet at that point, all that dam grub had taken the boy down!

On average, running "regular" grade alkeegazz today, a 304 can run a nominal 6>7* btdc as base timing, and 345 can run as much as 10>12* depending upon the operational elevation. A typoical 392 can't run more than a nominal 5*btdc.

The "0"* btdc spec point was an emissions thing and that was dependent upon all oem emissions systems being present and functional, including a carburetor and distributor in perfect condition. That "0" btdc factor is not anywhere near optimum timing for those engines. And...not "all" of those motors used "0" as a timing spec!
 
michael mayben said:
go back to post #2 in this thread and review the "pertronix" deal regarding power timing the engine. Then do it since ya can now drive it!
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I will read up on that again.

One last thing... Is there supposed to be a gasket between the block and the distributor? If so I'll need to track one down.
 
heath m said:
I will read up on that again.

One last thing... Is there supposed to be a gasket between the block and the distributor? If so I'll need to track one down.
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Ya gotta have a gasket between the distributor and the seat in the block. I use an "o" ring in that spot.

If ya don't have a gasket of some sort to space the distributor up (about 0.060"), the drive gear will actually contact the lower distributor shaft support bushing in the block and make a mess! Not to mention there will be an oil leak.

Just yesterday, one of our club members and localyokels who has been hangin' up here a lot this past winter brought a Holley distributor to me to part out that was also frozen inna 304 black he had about five years ago. I had already robbed some parts out of it back then, but he finally whittle the block away from it in small chunks over the years and the pile of shavings went to schnitzers!

That's ok wes...I just woke up from my regularly scheduled siesta also! When yawl comin' up for a workday??? And since it looks like wes hassa canoe, did ya tell him he can launch and retrieve in our front yard??
 
Ok, the local parts guys have no idea what I am talking about. I assume I can just pick up a generic "0" ring that is 0.06" thick, right?
 
heath m said:
ok, the local parts guys have no idea what I am talking about. I assume I can just pick up a generic "0" ring that is 0.06" thick, right?
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Yep! Or make a trip up here and I'll give ya some!

Best deal in the world is those "o" ring kits that are dirt cheep at harbor freight! I use that stuff constantly and either the metric set or the english set has at least two stacks of "o" rings that will work. That's a lifetime supply of "o" rings for under $8! Wes will need some too!
 
heath m said:
I bought the hf set. I am available to come out any day. When where you thinking?
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Thursday or Friday this week works for me! The Ford highboy rolling chassis is in the shop now but it can be sent back outside with a tarp over it since rain is forecast.

Yore call, what ever is best for you. My cell is 510.501.3680, if I don't pick up, then leave a message...sometimes I can't find my phone!
 
michael mayben said:
Thursday or Friday this week works for me! The Ford highboy rolling chassis is in the shop now but it can be sent back outside with a tarp over it since rain is forecast.

Yore call, what ever is best for you. My cell is 510.501.3680, if I don't pick up, then leave a message...sometimes I can't find my phone!
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Ya must of lost your phone... I left you a message about Thursday.
 
All I can say is thanks!

I pulled out of the driveway Thursday morning to make a trip to mayben land. I had to pull over 6 times on our street because the thing kept dying.

I finally got it to stay running and made the trip. When I arrived in leaburg, I pulled over on the side of the road to turn around and it kept dying on me. I could not get it to go at all without dying. Luckily I could simi-coast through a driveway to the road I needed and into his driveway. I pulled in to the shop and turned the engine off. The backfire that I had my ears plugged and ready for, scared the crap out of Mike.

We looked it over for a couple hours and then Mike lovingly gripped that distributor and adjusted it in meaningful way. This seemed to pep up the engine up. We spent time dialing that distributor in until it was just right, adjusting the idle as well.

Once the ignition sounded tuned in we moved to the carb. The carb is to remain untouched until you dial the ignition in or you will just end up chasing your tail all over the place. The carb needed the mixture drastically changed and once it was set, that virgin Scout purred like a kitty-kat.

We then went to put it on the analyzer, which I was very interested to see, however it was not working for some reason. I really wanted to see that old school scope show something.

Anyway... Mike wanted to do a little "power timing" (see http://www.forums.IHPartsAmerica.co...es-pertronix-require-timing-readjustment.html) to finish it up. We did a revised version of this since I had an automatic. He did what he did, and I am not sure I actually "heard" what it was.

With everything we did up there Thursday, it was all "by ear". No timing lights were used. Frankly, who cares what the timing light says. It is a smoothing running engine you want not a number. I have tried setting it to the spec in the service manual and it ran like a cat with only a one front and one back leg and no tail. Crappy!

After all was done, Mike made me feel like a king with all the talk of my virgin 1972 Scout and how strong the engine sounded. I can't thank you enough.

Now I need to get that "gun shy" mind set out of my head. There are a lot of you out there that know what I am talking about. You warm your Scout up for an hour, you drive all over the place on "safe" streets before hitting the freeway on-ramp, you wait forever before pulling out into traffic and you pump the heck out of the gas peddle any time you accelerate from a stop so it doesn't die. That is how I had to drive. Living in fear.

Some of you May think that is it, give up and parkit for a while or indefinitely. In all reality, you just need to tune it in by ignition first then carb. I have got to get rid of this fear of stalling. My Scout did not fail me once that long trip home. I can reach in through the window, turn the key and it start without pumping the gas pedal 5 hundred times. The fear is leaving, but it takes a whole new mind set.

Now I can focus on the oil leak... As he will attest... Is overly excessive. Thanks for teaching me so that I can now do it.

Pictures of my Scout can be found at my gallery:
ihc Scout II photo gallery | heath mcconnell
 
Don't it feel guud to make real progress on "stuff" heath! It don't always work out that way...poor mikee dimock's weekend here wasn't so successful...but it will be when he gits some jingle in hiz jeans and we git his motor project goin' again!

It's always a treat to work with stuff that ain't botchinated! And to find out that rig came from just down the river from us years ago...I'd say this is a sign of good juju workin' in the mckenzie valley!

Yore welcome up here any time for doin' whatever...we need to put in some quality time this season on the river, the raft will come off the shop ceiling mid-May!

After ya left I pulled our s80 back in the shop and connected the analyzer...sure enuff, the #1 cylinder trigger connector was intermittent at the spark plug end! I installed the spare cable set I have and now it's working perfectly, just like wes and the rest of the crew saw a few weeks back!

But I'm tellin' ya, once we get all the oil drool stopped up, that motor is good-to-go anuther hunnertthou! The big test was...ya made it all the way back home without callin' for rescue...that don't always happen arount here!

I know this will revive your enthusiasm for gettin' the rig in shape...let's keep going! We need you and yore fambly unit at the bee in July!!!

Kool website ya got there! I had no idea!

Payback here's gonna be heavy though...ya didn't see that ovation acoustic I got standin' in the corner of the office did ya??? I'm the ultimate geetar poser and it's time someone showed me what to do with it after 15 years of bein' protected in the case! Think I'm too old to lernt?
 
michael mayben said:
Payback here's gonna be heavy though...ya didn't see that ovation acoustic I got standin' in the corner of the office did ya??? I'm the ultimate geetar poser and it's time someone showed me what to do with it after 15 years of bein' protected in the case! Think I'm too old to lernt?
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Every person that plays a musical instrument is a poser... Well... Maybe not a poser, but there are those you look up to and use as inspiration when the going gets tough. This works the same way in the I-bought-a-Scout-and-don't-have-any-idea-what-to-do arena as well. Just pick the forsaken thing up and foodle around. No one is ever to old to learn. The ole' "can't teach an old dog new tricks" thing is a sham... I learned to power tune while parked in a garage!... And I am old to my kids.
 
Oh... And if you get me one of those sweet IHSTO stickers to slap on my Scout, I will teach you that with "three chords and the truth", as u2 sang, you can play probably 15,000 songs.

1-4-5 (or g-c-d) baby!
 
heath m said:
oh... And if you get me one of those sweet IHSTO stickers to slap on my Scout, I will teach you that with "three chords and the truth", as u2 sang, you can play probably 15,000 songs.

1-4-5 (or g-c-d) baby!
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I got that "one chord and the truth" part down purdee good now...but I don't 'member which one it is???? I kin still hear guud enuff up close ta know when I got the thang tuned though!

That u2 line is a classic for all times!

You an' wes load up and scoutpool up to tha club meet on May 7, there'll be a sticker waitin' for ya! And I gotta ihon sticker pack here for ya too, shoulda thought of that yestidee!

Then we need yore famblee unit here on May 9 ta serve as the offishul IHSTO entertainment committee!! Tha kids need more exposure to tha right kinda folks!
 
I have been driving the Scout around town all day and have found that with every start, it has taken longer and longer to start. Lot's of pumping is required.

Any suggestions?
 
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