The Ultimate IH Fourbanger

[Michael Mayben]

Robert has a real job and don't have time for this worthless schnizz since all his luv goes into the funny car now!

I only have this toy job here and still don't have time (or cash!) to spend on needless schnizz!

But that is changing rat now!

I got the new rear driveshaft installed in the beater truck project tonite, so it's back in dd service for now. And my wife now has work again after a year off even though it May not last for another year!

So next week I hope to take my 152 block to the machine shop for a bake/blast/magnaflux. If it passes crack inspection, then we'll decide which pistons we're gonna go with so I can have it bored while still at the shop.

The 196 crank I had sourced has turned out to be non-existent, some folks will flat out lie to ya about the parts they have, the crank turned out to be a 152 which I have three of already! So I'm back to looking for a 196 crank again that needs some work, crunched journals are just fine as the crank is gonna get some custom massage anyway.

I have a nice flywheel I swapped for that had just been surfaced, and a new 11" diaphragm clutch that was allowed to get wet in the original IH packaging in someone's parts department, so that clutch cover and it's companion clutch disc are going to the rebuilder for freshening. Once I have that stuff back in hand, the clutch set and flywheel go to the machine shop to add to the pile of parts for the engine balance.

That leaves the connecting rods to work out, and have Robert machine the crank trigger wheel for my crank hub. That will complete the package of parts needed for the engine balance work. At that time, I'll have southworth do the crank, bore the block, and then do the balance job.

I dug out the transmission project again yesterday so I can do some work on setting up the clutch release system, that thread will be revived here:

http://www.forums.IHPartsAmerica.com/transmission-tech/911-Scout-80-t18-four-speed-swaperoo.html

 

[Michael Mayben]

Bringing this stroker project back up, Robert and I have been discussing the rods to use and it looks like we're now gonna split a set of chev big block rods between us to go with the offset grind on the 196 crank.

Gotta new cam bearing tool a few days ago, so I need to finish stripping the 152 block I've designated and haul it to the machine shop for bake and blast and magnaflux before going any further.

According to the parts lists, there was only one cylinder head produced for 345 and 345a engine apps, part number 432091-c92. That number is for a replacement head assembly and that number May not be found on the actual casting. We need to verify the p/n for the head casting itself for correct I.d. In the field. But bottom line is, there was/is only one head for a 345 so this is simple. Does this jive with your research Robert?? I don't have any 345 heads here, only 152 and non-ic 196 (and ic 392).

 

[Provience]

If your block fails inspection, let me know. I have a 152 block that I have been cleaning up for my bottom end machinist class at sierra college. Crack free and getting ready to bore this Thursday. The block was previously taken 30 over and has 6 thou taper in the number 1 cylinder (worst) so hopefully it will clean at 40, if not then it will be bored to 50 over. Had to take 10 thou off the deck to get it to clean also.

I have absolutely no use for this motor and have been considering not even spending money for pistons and gaskets to put it all back together. I have just been using it for practice and experience with the class.

 

[Robert Kenney]

I know the 152 is a under achiever but it'll make over 196 inches and make more power per cu/in at a given rpm than a similarly trimmed 196. Don't know why guys hate them so much. Keep tuned to this channel.

 

[Provience]

I am interested in seeing how this comes out, if I had a 196 crank I would even be following right along. These little 4 bangers are sure neat motors, stout for sure. I have been keeping my eyes out for an 80 or 800, but as of now I simply have 2 of these motors with no truck body to put them in.

 

[Michael Mayben]

I need to drop this block at the machine shop Friday, so yesterday between kidney boulder attacks I was able to get the cam bearings and core plugs out of the way.

The big chunks of near-concrete you can see broke loose when I knocked the core plugs out. The entire rear half of this block is totally plugged with hardened sedimentation, there is no way this motor could have cooled effectively nor would any type of cooling system flush have been effective. All too typical of these engines that have not been maintained in any way over the years.

The bake and blast process will remove all traces of this crap and leave the block appearing freshly-cast inside and out! Far more effective treatment than any "hot tank" process for stuff like this where ya can't get inside.

 

[Michael Mayben]

This is a lisle cam bearing tool I picked up last week. This newer version uses two different thickness sets of rubber sleeves for the expanding mandrels, that gives much better bearing protection that the older style that used multiple "o" rings.

The driver bar is now machined out of solid aluminum bar stock, about half the weight of the older tool.

 

[Michael Mayben]

This shot shows the #5 cam bearing popped out and still engaged on the expanding mandrel, to remove it ya just loosen the mandrel and pull the shell off and then back the tool up and remove #4, etc.

 

[Michael Mayben]

I can't do decent macro pics with my camera, but this is #5 bearing. It has significant wear over it's entire running surface, with copper showing through the babbitt layer which is virtually worn away.

 

[Michael Mayben]

This is cam bearing #3.

That "mottled" appearance is the result of moisture-related damage over time. When the oil is not changed on a regular basis, acids accumulate that will then attack the friction-type bearing materials.

Cam bearing #4 is just above #3 in this pic. That one is missing it's entire babbitt layer, that folded up like a slinkee spring and was found in then pan. While it appears like it's just "worn" it's actually missing about 0.006" of it's id!

In actuality, each of the five cam bearings in this engine show a different type of wear/damage!

This motor set un-run each year until elk hunting season in late summer. Then it was started and run just enough to get the po into his hunting ground. About 6 years ago the fuel system plugged so badly it would no longer run and the po let it sit until a friend found it and managed to make it run again.

Then he poured cash into a total pos motor that took a cam bearing dump before our eyes one day (after bending several pushrods). At that point I swapped in a known good 152 and this one went in the core pile. This is a very early 152, produced in either '60 or early '61.

 

[Robert Kenney]

Michael,
before ya spend any sheckles on that old chunk of iron you'll need to very cylinder wall thickness and core shift... I'll let you know how my junk looks.

I have a new ultrasonic thickness tester but I need to make sure I can use it accuratly and veryify it on a .250 wall known cylinder.

 

[Michael Mayben]

michael,
before ya spend any sheckles on that old chunk of iron you'll need to very cylinder wall thickness and core shift... I'll let you know how my junk looks.

I have a new ultrasonic thickness tester but I need to make sure I can use it accuratly and verify it on a .250 wall known cylinder.

Ok!

So...let's put this pooter technology to work. If I mount the block on the new er gurney, and wheel it up close to one of my pooter monitors, can ya use yore new tool and test my block over the 'net in real time?? If I set up three monitors around the block, can ya do a 3d scan for me?? And if the webcam is running on it at the same time, can ya line bore it with yore laser system while it's on the bodywagon???

We gotta nuff bandwidth for all this kinda shit???

Let's see pictures of tha new tool!!!! Ya needa gurney to go with it??

 

[Michael Mayben]

Is this about the right height for settin' tha bodydolly? Do we need to call in monte for a certified view that can be interpreted by monte's bosslady?

 

[Robert Kenney]

let's see pictures of tha new tool!!!! Ya needa gurney to go with it??

It is in transit so I stole pictures from the seller's web page.

Photo's below!

 

[Robert Kenney]

Well making progress... My doner 196 arrived but it maybe to good to rip the heart out of... Came via a sw friend and bro from a 76 terra outa a pull-a-part.


It is an ic 196 and has the manifold should mayben need it. should work on a 345 head. Clean inside, turns easy and has compression on all 4....

 

[Michael Mayben]

I know the feeling! As hard to come by as a 196 is, it's a bitch to gut one just to score the crank!

Speaking of intake manifolds, I went to town today to check up on the progress of the c-1 restoration/body work and drop off the spindles. I spent too much time bs'n at American spirit and by the time I got back to the welding shop that is fixin' the intake manifold I punched the holes in, they were closed!

I'm not gonna spend anymore time scruuin' with that intake on the 196 that is in the s80 now. The next head it mounts to is gonna be the stroker head with a new weber dgv. I've also spent all the time I'm gonna trying to make that pos weber I have now play nice, without a functional choke system it's near impossible to start unless it's kept inside the shop.

 

[Michael Dimock]

Mayben, if you need a 196 crank then let me know, as the Scout 800 196 is taking up space in my parents garage! Pm me if you're interested.

 

[Michael Mayben]

mayben, if you need a 196 crank then let me know, as the Scout 800 196 is taking up space in my parents garage! Pm me if you're interested.

I forgot about that rotten pos! It's already butchinated and needs a heavy duty grind job so it's not being wasted! In fact, it looks like you tried to weld it with a crackerbox and then re-ground on a bench grinder!

I'll take it! Will pops know where it is and which one it is in the parts pile??

 

[Michael Dimock]

Yes, as it is the only 4 cyl in the garage at this point. It is still apart, so getting the crank will be easy.

 

[Michael Mayben]

yes, as it is the only 4 cyl in the garage at this point. It is still apart, so getting the crank will be easy.

I'll give pop a call and make arrangements to snake the crank. Thanks!

A little progress this week on the project, got the block back from the machine shop yesterday along with some other parts for other jobs.

The bake and blast turned out well, no surprises. And the block also magged out just fine with no cracks detected.

The ultrasonic thickness tester was returned to the machine shop a few days ago, so at the last minute, the boys also did a cursory scan of the block for me, they like the looks of it and see no problem in handling whatever over-bore we wanna go with. No charge for that as it wasn't on the workorder and they did not do a full-on test.

If ya look at the earlier pic, you will see that this block was completely plugged in the water jacket with a concrete-like deposit. With the exception of one spot, all that shit was vaporized. So I used several different chisels and pieces of drill rod to get inside the water jacket and take out what was remaining, that shit looked like actually part of the cast iron but it finally broke out. That pile of shit on the floor is about two inches high, maybe a total of a half pound of crap was removed. If that shit was left in the block, the radiator would soon be clogged beyond hope!
Once the oil galleries and all threaded holes are chased and sterilized, the block will be pressure-washed one last time, then the internal surfaces glyptal'd. Then back to the machine shop for decking and boring.