T-19 cold shift problem

O

Overland Scout

New member
In the morning when it's colder my trans has a really hard time shifting out of the gears. When I put it in first gear and depress the clutch to go to second I have to yank it pretty hard to get it out of first (all shifting is similar to this). Once warmed up, it seems to shift just fine. I assume this is due to it being cold and the fluid hasn't had a chance to circulate but it sucks in the morning when I get into it because I'm afraid I'm abusing the trans. Is there anything I do to fix this issue?

My Scout is a 76 345, t-19, d20, 4.10 gears, Auburn lim slip. I'm running 80w90 in the tranny right now.
 
The first thing you should do is drain that gear lube. It is not a recommended lubricant for your transmission and 4x4 transfer case either. The additive package in gear lube is known to be harmful to some of the softer metal components in those gear boxes. That fluid is fine for your axle differentials though. For the gear boxes, you should use only gl1 also known as mineral oil, or straight 50wt motor oil. Not multi-viscosity. The motor oil May be easier for you to source than the mineral oil, as it can be found on the shelf at any parts store.
 
Any brand is fine. If significant internal wear and/or damage has occurred, there is no substance in a bottle that will repair it. That requires an overhaul. What it will do is prevent further damage and accelerated wear from occurring.
 
I don't think any damage has been done to the tranny because it shifts just fine once warmed up. I've been meaning to switch over to the swepco products anyway so now May be a good time to do that.

I still wonder if that's the issue though or whether it could be something else.
 
If you live in an extreme cold climate much of the year, you May find that 40wt motor oil would be more suitable, while still providing adequate lubrication. Swepco products are top shelf.
 
I'm not too worried about cold weather because I live in south carolina. I will call swepco to see if they sell their products here locally but if not I guess I will have to order from IHOnly and inevitably add some more stuff to the order.

Can't remember....how much will I need for the trans and transfercase?
 
It's all about the oil weight. Gear 90 or motor 50, cold weather makes shifting hard. If you're lucky to have the owner's manual, it will show that gear lube selection is based on temperature. For your area, I was stationed at charleston navy yard in the 70's, I'd say a 40 wt would do fine. For most light cruising in the summer, 40 wt would still work. With 4.10 gears, won't starting in 2nd work? I use 90 wt all season, I just have to shift a tad slower when cold than warm, you tend to get a knack for it.

My neighbor drove truck in alaska for the big pipeline deal in the 70's; and they cut their gear oil with kerosene, made it like a 5 wt. Regular gear oil would channel and then the bearings and gears would go dry. I suppose now with synthetics that old school stuff is history.

Iirc, it was about 3.5 quarts in the 4 speed, and just a bit over 3 pints in the transfer case.
 
This is a problem which pops up frequently and a lot of time could be saved by going back and reading in the forum.

90wt gear oil and 50wt motor oil is the same viscosity, both when cold and hot.. The additive package is what is different as gear oil has ep additives and the engine oil your rig called for originally was for 50wt non detergent oil. The problem with the easy-to-get 90wt or any weight for that matter is that the type of ep additives they use are not compatible with yellow metals. Back in those days 50wt engine oil was easier to get and it worked just well enough to get by. The newer generation gear oils, such as swepco's additives are fully compatible with the yellow metals found in transmissions.

Gear oil with the right additives will give you more protection than 40 or 50wt engine oil, and it was designed for that purpose, not for use in engines.

My recommendation is swepco 210-80w140 gear oil for every box you have (transfer case May take atf)... That would make it simple, and you will get a lot more protection and cooler operating temperatures. It should also eliminate the stiff shift from first to second when cold. This is a truly "multi-graded" gear oil and will work fine in any application calling for 80, 80/90, 90, 85/140 and 140wt oils. Price is higher than most, yeah, but how do you measure protection?

No offense meant to you old-timers who are stuck on engine oil or off-the shelf gear oil for your drive trains. This is just an alternative, and it is available at ihon. Go to the oil tech section and select the 210 product for more information.

Naturally, if any wear or damage has already occurred, no product will bring it back ..... No-one has a "mechanic in a can."
 
Well I guess trevor and I are oldtimers.;) so be it.

I am sold on swepco's engine oils. It's time to get up to speed on their transmission/gear oils. I usually use a gl-1 90wt for the transmission and a gl-5 for the axles. I also add a Ford sourced limited slip additive for the axles that have that feature. Most limited slip rated gear oil is for top off only. So looking at the product sheet, am I correct that the 210 would be correct for both boxes and axles? This sure would beat driving around town for this oil and that one.
 
Thanks for the help guys. I figured it was probably the gear oil causing this issue. I talked with swepco on Friday and they took care of me. Now I just need to get it changed out. I also talked to my local transmission shop and they said I should probably just double check the clutch etc. To be sure.

Sorry if I rehashed the whole gear oil discussion....now with swepco we have the perfect source for our needs though!
 
greg r said:
well I guess trevor and I are oldtimers.;) so be it.

I am sold on swepco's engine oils. It's time to get up to speed on their transmission/gear oils. I usually use a gl-1 90wt for the transmission and a gl-5 for the axles. I also add a Ford sourced limited slip additive for the axles that have that feature. Most limited slip rated gear oil is for top off only. So looking at the product sheet, am I correct that the 210 would be correct for both boxes and axles? This sure would beat driving around town for this oil and that one.
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Greg, etal "old-timers"

yes, the 210 can be used for manual transmissions as well as the axles....... Ihon does this at their shop and sells it for the same purpose. Of course ihon isn't the only one, the same oil works in the big rig trannies like eaton and fuller which called for gl-1 90wt gear oil for decades. It also contains a limited slip additive in it and that, in most cases would eliminate adding the ls addidtive you would normally purchase seperately. When changing over in the rear diffs tho, I find that sometimes it makes a difference on how the tolerances were set up, so you should do a quick test to see if you need more limited slip additive. Go to an empty parking lot, or wide area and crank the steering wheel to each side and make slow circles, if you feel it hopping or hear it clicking or chirping, you need to add more of the ls additive.

The 210 will also offer more seperation when there is water in the oil whereas most other oils will emulsify with the oil which will diminish the protection you get because it causes a boundary lubrication situation. Naturally, if the pumkins have a lot of water (and oil) you still need to drain and refill and possibly consider raising the vents on the diffs and/or installing a filter of some kind to eliminate the problem.
 
While I am a creature of habit, I'm certainly not above change for the right reason, and I think this qualifies.
 
When its on the lift at the trans shop, look closely at the clutch disengagement, and possibly the pilot bearing. I had an issue in my '74 where the input shaft was still spinning with the clutch pushed in. The pressure plate and disc were still slightly loaded and it was tough getting it out of first in the morning. Not to say gear lube isn't the issue, but its something to check on. A pilot bearing that has gone dry can do the same thing.
Let us know how it goes!
 
yes, the 210 can be used for manual transmissions as well as the axles.
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Good to know! It will be time to order.

Say, maabee a word to jerry; he's always think'un what to send me for for the holidaze.
 
dealbreaker74 said:
when its on the lift at the trans shop, look closely at the clutch disengagement, and possibly the pilot bearing. I had an issue in my '74 where the input shaft was still spinning with the clutch pushed in. The pressure plate and disc were still slightly loaded and it was tough getting it out of first in the morning. Not to say gear lube isn't the issue, but its something to check on. A pilot bearing that has gone dry can do the same thing.
Let us know how it goes!
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Dealbreaker, thanks for the extra info. I'll be sure to check on the pilot bearing as well.
 
My t-18 used to shift like that. I switched to mobil 1 15/50 about a decade ago and it and the t/c shift like a dream.
 
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