soon to be scout II for sale If it doesnt turnover soon

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stoney126

Member
Hey all, im seem to be having some issues. Ive had this Scout for about a year. When I bought it, it would turn over and run. It would not idle unless you kept you foot on the gas but it ran. Didnt have any money to start working on it until lately. I went through and made sure that everything was being lubed the way its supposed to by priming the system via instructions I found on here.

After putting it back together again using the timing and "stabbing the distributor" instructions I can not get her to fire. I did however get a nice big flame out of the carb. Went back and checked no. 8 at tdc and my timing marks lined up. Rotor lines up with no.8. Im really at a loss here and rear and re read the instructions. Also made sure the wires are in the correct firing order. Anyway any help would be sorely appreciated
 
I'm sure you won't believe it, but take it from someone who has been there and done that before, your timing is 180 degrees off. Do what you can to suspend your disbelief, take a deep breath and redo your distributor stab. The important thing to remember is that all the pistons in a 4-cycle engine will hit tdc twice...once on the compression stroke and again on the exhaust stroke. What you did is set your timing on the exhaust stroke. It needs to be set on the compression stroke. That means compressed air will be forced out of the spark plug hole as the cylinder comes to the top of the hole. Without that poof of air, you can be certain that you're not on the compression stroke. And don't feel bad. This is one of the most common mistakes that can be made.
 
Ok I dont know how I did it but you were dead on scoutboy, I really have no idea how I got it backwards. She still doesnt run but its alot closer. She did actually turn over for a brief second a few times. But then she started to act like she was falling back out of time. I know the carb is in bad shape and is part of the issue. Im going to check the points (first time for me:icon_lol: ) and make sure its ok. Maybe even replace if I need to. I got new plug wires im going to put on tomorrow along with checking spark plug gap. Thanks so much my spirits have been lifted lol
 
Closer is good. It can't really fall back out of time provided the distributor lock down bracket and bolt are secure. These engines don't have timing chains, so there's no slop factor there as with some other makes. It might be that your timing is just a smidge on the retarded side. 0 degrees is a starting point. These engines tend to respond favorably to about 10-12 degrees of advance to the static timing. Trying to tune with a crapped out carb is like pushing a boulder up a hill. Now when it comes to points and condenser, the saying that el cheapo is el crappo has never been more accurate. Pop for the top shelf distributor parts. There is a recent thread with many posts and many contributors hereabouts trying to help a guy in a similar situation to yours. The thing that ultimately got him over the hump was popping for a better quality condenser than the new el cheapo chinee unit he had installed. It really can be that simple. When you replace your plug wires take care and double verify that you have them routed in proper sequence. Don't necessarily assume that they are correct as they sit right now. Take the time to trace them out. Set your point gap first before making adjustments to the timing. The dwell angle (point gap) will have an effect on your timing.
Just to be real nit-picky...turning over is usually used to describe the engine making revolutions either by starter or hand cranking. Firing is most often used to describe either the presence or the lack of internal combustion. I meant what you knew in this case, but just something to keep in mind for any future diagnostic queries you might have.
 
Lol I work on my nomenclature. But you make a good point, diag is hard enough to figure out over the internet.

Tried her out again today and set the timing back to base. A few pumps of the gas and she fired right up and then quickly died. A lil playing around has me believing I am pushing that boulder up hill. A slight taping on the gas pedal I mean the slightest of bumps kept her running for about 30 seconds. I have no doubt that the carb is in need of rebuild or replacement. But im happy to know that I have a majority of the timing in place. Time(pun yuk yuk) to search out carb options along with taking care of those points after some reading. Thanks scoutboy im sure this is not the last youll be helping me out.


Btw I have had a smile on my face for about 6 hours now after hearing her run just that lil bit
 
That's good news. Hey, you haven't given us many specs on this Scout. We should make positive id of your carb model. Perhaps some minor tweaking could bitch slap it enough to keep the engine running...maybe poorly, but running nonetheless without need for such creative throttle input. Pics from several angles with the filter canister removed are encouraged.
 
Here are a few pics. Its a Scout II 345/727 with a 30 and 35 and drum brakes all the way around lol. She needs some love but there is no rot.









 
That's a 2210, likely original to the engine. Not my favorite by any stretch. They are smog carbs that were designed out of sheer compromise during the wild and crazy anti-pollution/fuel crisis days of the early 70's. They did well enough back in the day when they were new and there wasn't any friggin' corn in the fuel. If you're even remotely considering the possibility of an upgrade, I'd say that's a good instinct. My personal opinion is that particular carb model isn't worth dicking with too much unless the rig is already driveable and your budget is squeaky tight. A Holley list 0-7448 in 350 cfm makes a very nice, out of the box, bolt on upgrade.
All Scout II's came with Dana 44 rear axles, so unless somebody performed some crazy swap to a 35...which would loudly beg the question...why in the name of zuess' butthole?...that's what you've got.
 
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I been silently watching this in the back ground and about up chucked my coffe when I read the 30/35 combo. Confirming what trever said, all the 70's scouts came with a Dana 44 rear end. Why any dung hole would swap it out in favor of a 35 is beyond me.

I'm glad to see that there is light coming through the tunnel and there is some resemblance of success. What year is this rig in question?
 
Some things you can do in the near term while you're deciding what to do in the long term...examine all your vacuum lines very carefully for cracks or splits or loose fitting ends. Replace as needed. Make sure there are no vacuum fittings on the carb itself that are open to the atmosphere. Plug/cap off as needed. Make visual verification that the choke butterfly plate closes up on your next cold start attempt. Your pics show it fully open as you would expect to see on a fully warmed engine. These engines require the air intake be choked off when cold in order to keep running. As the engine warms, the choke plate should gradually open to full vertical to allow in maximum fresh air.
 
If it started and ran for a bit, then died. But a blip on the throttle kept it going for another bit, it sounds like it's running out of fuel. Remove the line at the carb and run it into a clear container while you crank the engine for about 30 sec. If you don't get at least a cup of fuel, the pump is bad or the line/filter is plugged.
 
The Scout is a 72. I thought I bread somewhere it was a 30/35 combo, but a 44 would be great. Ya the butterfly plate is open all the time. The vacuum diaphragm that controls it has no line to it. The vacuum diagram I have seen is for one that still has a air pump and associated t fittings and lines. When giving it alil gas I can only one side of the carb spraying.

As far as the fuel pump, previous owner put on a new one but will double check flow to confirm proper operation..


Btw thanks guys, really getting the spark going for me again. Probably told six people today about my scouts progress.
 
One of the problems with that 2210 carb is when po's decide to "optimize" things under the hood by getting rid of this, that and the other emissions components. I have no love for any of those items, but all that garbage was engineered as a package, with the carb as the central part of the overall system. When you start randomly removing pieces of the system, the function of the remaining components often suffers if the removal is not done properly.

The correct vacuum plumbing is extensive and resembles spaghetti. You're beyond the point of needing to worry about most of those lines. The source for the choke vacuum diaphragm is a port on the rear of the carb base that is closest to the diaphragm. It is probably plugged at the moment. I don't know if reconnecting that alone will restore proper choke function, but you stand a much better chance of keeping a choked engine running, even if you have to temporarily jerry-rig some means of closing and opening it. Only one stream of fuel squirt is definitely problematic too.
 
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