so many questions ... so overwhelming

[overdrivesteve]

Hello everyone,

well, it finally arrived yesterday, from alaska. I've been waiting about 2 months, and now I hardly know where to start. But waiting did give me the time to study up on this truck, and start making plans for all the "enhancements" I wanted to do.

But now that it's finally in my possession, the work it needs just to become a dependable daily driver is daunting, and my knowledge, especially in regards to the engine, seems so inadequate. My only experience has been in restoring old Chevy trucks. So because I don't know where to post all the many questions I have, and I have a lot, I'm putting them all here. Otherwise I'd be posting all over the forum and I'm sure people would get tired of seeing my name everywhere.

Never before in my life (except when I inspected and test drove this truck two months ago) have I ever seen an IH truck, nor ever lifted the hood or sat inside one before. It's like discovering a whole new little slice of the truck world.

So here's my first set of questions.

I was told the truck would be delivered on a trailer. But instead it was delivered by dolly tow - where the rear wheels were in contact with the road all the time from alaska. And he did not disconnect the rear drive shaft, but only put the trans in neutral. Does that mean the transfer case and transmission are now toast? Perhaps I'm just being overly sensitive now that the honeymoon is over, but it does seem to have drivetrain vibration I did not notice when I test-drove it two months ago. I know some vehicles should not be towed that way, but I don’t know about IH trucks.

Next question. I've looked everywhere and I cannot find where the temperature gauge sensor is on this engine. I cannot find any wire for it either. In your opinion, where is the best place to put the temperature gauge sensor? Could it be the temp gauge is not hooked up? Possibly, except the temp gauge goes to and stays at the 1/4 Mark all the time the engine is running.
Or perhaps I just discovered the secret to never over heating - apply power to the gauge with no sensor connection.

In your opinion does the last picture show the best location and proper type of oil pressure sensor I need for my type of oil gauge? It also just stays at the 1/4 Mark when the engine is running. The second half of this video shows the unusual type of gauges I have: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13y1fd3d3gc

Final opening question - how do I open the glove box door? Is there some trick to it? The button is pushed all the way in. I think I May need to break through from under it. The po told me he has never opened it, and I don't want to force it with a screwdriver by bending the door out more than it already is.

So here's a couple pics of my new truck. I'm including a couple of the engine compartment too, because in my next post I'm going to start asking a lot of questions about things that don't look right to me in the engine compartment, such as where’s the crankcase breather in an IH, or is it normal to have one of the heater hoses go through the fender in an old IH, or why is there less than 2 inches of clearance between the tie rod and oil pan drain bolt and what if you hit a big bump that compresses the suspension more than 2 inches, etc. Etc.
So stay tuned for the laughs.

And thank you for your help.

Steve

p.s. Truck specs: a 1962, 3/4 ton crew cab pick-up truck. The plate says model c120 4x4 serial no sb291252b with a wb 140 with net hp of 180 hp @ 4400 rpm and gross hp of 193.1 hp @4400 rpm with a max gvw of 7000. But I was told the truck is an earlier model, such as a 60 or 61 but it is registered as a 63. The engine is stamped v305 453863 but I was told it was from a large, old military vehicle. The truck in the second half of this youtube video, inside and out, is exactly what my truck would look like if it had no rust, and except mine is a 4x4:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13y1fd3d3gc

 

[Scoutboy74]

Congratulations on your purchase. There are several schools of thought regarding dolly or flat towing where one or both sets of towed vehicle wheels are in contact with the ground. It depends somewhat on how the towed is equipped and who you talk to. I'm of the opinion that regardless of how the towed rig is equipped, unless the distance is very short, that rear prop shaft should be disconnected just to be on the safe side. For towed rigs with auto transmissions, regardless of whether they are two or four wheel drive, if the distance towed is more than 25 miles, it is even more imperative to disco the shaft. Of course there are equipment combinations that when shifted into the proper position, do allow for supposedly harmless towing with all shafts connected. One really needs to know their equipment and the correct shifting procedure beforehand. It isn't a one-size-fits-all. Which is why I come back to the notion that when a trailer is not an option, drop the shaft. Now whether the tow method used in your case actually caused any transmission or transfer case damage...nearly impossible to prove. Its an old vehicle with old parts and an unknown quantity of swapped/mismatched parts. There are a plethora of causes for the vibration you've noticed. Old bias ply tires on unbalanced rims, improper inflation, failing wheel bearings, failing differential bearings, bent prop shaft, worn u-joints...the list goes on and on from there.
The v-305 is actually v-304, since IH never produced a 305 cid engine. What vehicle it came out of previously really matters little in this case. For clearance purposes, you should really try to source a rear sump oil pan-pump-pickup combo. That would give your front suspension some relief in the event of full compression.
The most common location I've seen for the temp sensor on IH sv8 engines is threaded into a bung fitting on the intake manifold very near the thermostat housing and distributor, or threaded into the thermo housing itself.
I'd not be too trusting of your ancient instruments until compared/contrasted with readings from temporarily connected modern gauges. Those old gauges, even if working correctly, don't provide much info beyond normal/not normal conditions. That doesn't do you much good if you don't first understand what normal should be for your engine. I prefer to see a needle pointing at a number. Like an oil pressure reading of 40 psi at cruise. Or a coolant temp of 180 degrees. With baselines established, one can then compare them against what the stock instrument is saying to determine whether it is functioning properly or not.
Around the time this truck was manufactured, it was common practice to title vehicles by the sale date rather than the manufacture date. There are numerous cases of slow selling vehicles titled with later than expected dates as a result.

 

[overdrivesteve]

Thank you for your thoughtful reply.
I mistyped, it is a v-304.

In looking over some pictures in other posts, I believe I May have a loadstar oil pan, but not totally sure yet until I change the oil or find some rough dimensions for one of the pans. I have never actually seen another IH engine, other than in pictures. The oil pans look very similar:
http://forums.IHPartsAmerica.com/gas-engine-tech/4110-oil-capacity-345-v8-needed.html
One of the red oil pans shown there is exactly like mine.

I do eventually plan on adding about half a dozen under-dash mechanical gauges, probably from the company below. But first need to find a machine shop that can make me the type of mounting bracket I have planned to mount them all. For oil I'm thinking about their 0 to 50 psi oil pressure gauge scale:
uma instruments inc. ©

I'll check again today, but I did not see anyplace to put a temp sensor in the front part of this engine unless I use a t at a water hose.
I'm off to work now.
Thanks.
Steve

 

[Scoutboy74]

Agreed, it looks like a loadstar pan, which has increased capacity, but the lack of clearance is a downside. Those are nice looking gauges. Please post some pics focusing on the thermo housing, distributor and upper water neck area looking in from the passenger side. Use light if needed.

 

[overdrivesteve]

Hi,

here are a few of the other pictures I took last weekend. I can take more pics next weekend, whatever May be helpful.
I threw in the last picture to show how little clearance there is between the tie rod and oil pan. Can't get two fingers in between, so I guess only about 1.5 inches clearance.

I did find the temp sensor between the distributor and t-stat housing, thanks. And there is a wire going to it.
So my related question is, where would be the best place to install an additional sensor for a mechanical temp gauge? Where is typically the hottest part of a IH s v8 engine? Perhaps use a t at the heater hose connection? Or there are a couple possible places at the rear of the engine?

And is there any place on the top half of the engine where I can connect an oil pressure gauge line? I think somewhere on top would be better than putting it on the bottom of the block.

Thanks.

Steve

 

[Scoutboy74]

Good pics. Yeah I need to backtrack on my original suggestion of a rear sump pan. That would be even worse as it wouldn't clear the solid axle. A Scout II double sump pan wouldn't work either, for the same reason. You could have your tierod professionally modified for additional clearance. It might also be possible to professionally modify the bottom/rear area of the pan sump to gain some clearance. Or you could look at sourcing a '69-'75 (likely used in earlier years as well) fullsize peekup/Travelall front sump pan-pump-pickup combo. You'd loose some capacity (no biggie) but hopefully gain a couple inches of clearance. They should be fairly plentiful due to the amount of folks swapping engines from those rigs into their Scout II's. Or add a suspension lift. There's no kit available, so you'd be blazing your own trail there.

Such a cute little open element air filter on top of the carb. nice redneck tourniquet on the lower radiator hose.

you've got the IH version delcotron distributor, which you May be familiar with from your days of playing with bowtie rigs. I'm a fan of those units.

I'm going to leave the suggestion for a mechanical temp gauge sensor location up to someone like Robert kenney. I don't want to steer you wrong there.

There are a number of small, square head pipe plugs in various locations. Some are on the side of the engine block just above the oil pan parallel to the stock op sender location. Others are located at the front and rear of the cylinder heads. The conventional location for connecting a line to a wet gauge is on the side of the block near the stock sender. I do not know if there would be any pros/cons to tapping the line into one of the cylinder head ports. Again, rk could answer that better for you.

What is that rod running from the carb throttle linkage to somewhere down below the firewall? Does this truck have a floor-shifted auto trans swapped in by any chance?

 

[overdrivesteve]

Hi,

I'll think about the clearance issue for awhile. But there are a couple other alternative fixes in addition to a suspension lift or changing the oil pan and pick-up. I'll mention those to get your feedback on them later this weekend when I have the time. But first there are so many other things I need to do just to get this to be a dependable driver.

That rod is just the gas pedal link rod. But I'll have lots of other general transmission questions later about this 4-speed manual trans...

Any experts on old IH trucks in los angeles care to come by? I'll have a can of suds waiting...

There is no crankcase ventilation at all on this engine (probably why this clean engine seeps oil in the back. Hopefully the po did not blow out a gasket or seal somewhere and that seepage will stop once the engine can breathe). There is only one little hose connection near the top of the oil fill tube which the po put a rubber cap on. Not sure what it should connect to.

What is the proper way to vent these IH engines? I could run a little hose from that oil fill tube connector to the inside of the air cleaner. But that seems messy. And I don't like oil vapors and dropletts going down the carb. Or I could just clamp something like this to the top of the oil fill tube? Would that be adequate and work ok? How do you suggest I vent this IH engine properly and so it doesn't look too mickey mouse?

Perhaps if people could post some engine compartment pics or links then I'd have something to compare to.

Thanks.

Steve

 

[overdrivesteve]

Now why did that picture show up but none of the others did? All the other pictures became only links. I didn't do anything different, as far as I know.
Steve

 

[Scoutboy74]

now why did that picture show up but none of the others did? All the other pictures became only links. I didn't do anything different, as far as I know.
Steve

I don't know. Yeah, the pan clearance issue really isn't an issue unless off-road womping. Thanks for clarifying what the rod is for. Duh, makes sense. I'm so used to looking at sii's and d-series rigs with throttle cables instead of rods that when I see a rod back there I knee jerk to the wrong conclusion.
You definitely need some engine ventilation, but if there is oil seepage now, some gasket or gaskets is/are already compromised. If the oil is collecting up high in the two small troughs at the rear of the engine, then the seep is most likely from the pushrod cover gasket, which is a notorious oil leak area on these engines. Or it could be from the valve cover gasket(s). Your engine originally utilized an enclosed oil bath filtration system, which was ditched in favor of the darling little cupcake we see now. The item you have pictured actually works well when affixed to a tube and threaded into the valve cover spark arrest bung as seen on later year engines. I have one in that arrangement on my 392. In your case, I'd suggest a ventilated oil breather cap for the fill tube and leave the hose nipple plugged. I think that would look the cleanest. The line running from a vac fitting at the rear of your intake that takes a sharp 90 down to the push rod cover functions as the vacuum end of the crankcase ventilation. Can you tell if it incorporates a pcv valve (the one that rattles)? If not you May want to look at incorporating a rattle valve back there as well.

 

[Greg R]

there is no crankcase ventilation at all on this engine

You do have a pcv valve. I can see it in the pic xxxxx-034 in post 5. Fortunately for you, it looks like the good take apart kind you can clean and re-use. If the valve is ok to go, all you need is a filtered air supply, say from the carb's air filter, to somewhere on top such as a valve cover. I replaced the oil filler cap on mine with one that had a bung hole and grommet, then it was easy to lash up a 3/4" or 7/8" pcv hose and adapt to one going to the carb filter. With the hose going to a carburetor air filter, you'll have more of a closed system which I think works better than just a sock on top.

 

[overdrivesteve]

you do have a pcv valve...

I am so glad you caught that. Previously I thought that was just some type of water cooling bypass because the fittings looked so much like heavy-duty water fittings.

Consequently I found this link and things make so much more sense now ... I'm learning.
http://forums.IHPartsAmerica.com/gas-engine-tech/2244-servicing-cleanable-pcv-valve.html

To remove for cleaning and to replace I assume I only need to undo those two little clamps - no tricks needed, correct?

So to properly complete the circuit, if I understand correctly, I just need to run a pcv type hose from inside the air cleaner compartment to the oil filler connection that now has that little black rubber cap on it, correct? (see pics) I needed an excuse for a different air cleaner assembly anyway ;-)

but then do I also need to put another valve of some type in this hose too? Otherwise if the engine should ever backfire into the carb, what would prevent that back-fire from igniting the oil mist and possible fuel vapors in the engine block and turning it into the biggest pipe bomb this side of the middle east?

Please excuse my dumb questions, but I'm much better with trans or axle rebuilding than I am at vehicle tune-up and emissions.

Thanks.

 

[Scoutboy74]

This is exactly why I think the breather oil filler cap would work well in your case. In the event of a backfire, the exit point would be well away from your fuel source. If you're going to be connected to your open element air filter base, you would want to incorporate some sort of spark/flame arrest measure for safety.

 

[Greg R]

to remove for cleaning and to replace I assume I only need to undo those two little clamps - no tricks needed, correct?

That's pretty much it, do notice that one end of the valve is threaded into the elbow. As old as it looks, you should get all new hose as the old can be brittle and a beetch to disconnect.

A flame arrestor shouldn't be hard to find. While a correct one would have a "valve" of sorts along with a mesh filler, my filler cap has a mesh packed in it and that was good enough for me. Trevor's idea is one option, it was an older version of a pcv system before it went to a more closed one. Having an arrestor in line with the hose to the filler neck nipple would keep it more trim or oem looking. Your choice.

 

[1975IH200]

my comments in red.

hi,


I did find the temp sensor between the distributor and t-stat housing, thanks. And there is a wire going to it.
So my related question is, where would be the best place to install an additional sensor for a mechanical temp gauge? In the t-stat housing. Currently you have a heater hose there, you could relocate it to the intake manifold, right side, between cylinder 6 & 8 where the pipe plug is now. Then install a temp probe in the t-stat housing. where is typically the hottest part of a IH s v8 engine? at the t-stat housing, nothing hotter than right there for the coolant. Perhaps use a t at the heater hose connection? Or there are a couple possible places at the rear of the engine? noted above.

And is there any place on the top half of the engine where I can connect an oil pressure gauge line? no, only on the side of the block for oil pressure. Heads do not have a port for oil pressure that I know of. I think somewhere on top would be better than putting it on the bottom of the block.

Thanks.

Steve

 

[dkminors]

Is it possible the engine is stamped as a 345? The intake manifold looks too tall to be off a 304.

 

[overdrivesteve]

my comments in red. Originally posted by overdrivesteve
hi,

I did find the temp sensor between the distributor and t-stat housing, thanks. And there is a wire going to it.
So my related question is, where would be the best place to install an additional sensor for a mechanical temp gauge? In the t-stat housing. Currently you have a heater hose there, you could relocate it to the intake manifold, right side, between cylinder 6 & 8 where the pipe plug is now. Then install a temp probe in the t-stat housing. Where is typically the hottest part of a IH s v8 engine? At the t-stat housing, nothing hotter than right there for the coolant. Perhaps use a t at the heater hose connection? Or there are a couple possible places at the rear of the engine? Noted above.

And is there any place on the top half of the engine where I can connect an oil pressure gauge line? No, only on the side of the block for oil pressure. Heads do not have a port for oil pressure that I know of. I think somewhere on top would be better than putting it on the bottom of the block.

Thanks.

Steve

Hi,
thanks, that (re temp sensor and moving heater hose) looks like it would work well, and I see how I can make things look less cluttered too, at least on one side of the engine. I have not got my service manuals yet, so just to be sure, cylinder 8 is on the rear drivers side or rear passenger side?

Another of my many questions, is this the correct way to connect the heater in an old IH? It just seems unusual to see the heater hose going through the fender and not directly through the firewall.

Thanks.

Steve

 

[overdrivesteve]

is it possible the engine is stamped as a 345? The intake manifold looks too tall to be off a 304.

Hi,

yes, I have tripled checked the stamp near the fuel pump. The engine block is definitely stamped v305 453863

however, the story is the engine came from a large, low mileage military vehicle and put into this truck, but who knows what the doner vehicle May have been, or what parts were interchanged between this and the other engine.

I wish there was some way to track that stamped number to actually know for sure. But I am sure its not the original engine for this truck because there is so little clearance between the tie rod and oil pan drain plug.

The po spent about 5k on the engine swap, and that's using the replacement engine as is, not rebuilding it first. Perhaps that's why I want to learn everything I can about it, and learn to maintain it as perfectly as possible, because I don't have an extra 5 to 10k to spend rebuilding this engine, especially if it has a major break down 2000 miles from home. The final plans for this truck is to use as a long-distance on-road and off-road camper. And I have never been to a "binder bash" or any similar event and look forward to meeting the people who have helped my dream become a reality.

The last major car show I attended a few months ago had cars, trucks, military vehicles, jeeps, vans, panel trucks, and some awesome one-of-a-kind creations. But not one IH of any kind was represented. In a city like los angeles they are just very rare. Everyone who has seen my truck think it's some type of Ford. They can't seem to grasp there was another company making pick-up trucks besides the big 3.
Sorry for rambling on...

Steve

 

[Scoutboy74]

I have not got my service manuals yet, so just to be sure, cylinder 8 is on the rear drivers side or rear passenger side?

yes.

Another of my many questions, is this the correct way to connect the heater in an old IH? It just seems unusual to see the heater hose going through the fender and not directly through the firewall.

no. It isn't. There is a visible rust ring around the hole (from flame exposure) for that hose indicating some po got creative with a gas axe in order to complete that phase of the creative plumbing. Why on god's green earth? One can only speculate.

hi,

yes, I have tripled checked the stamp near the fuel pump. The engine block is definitely stamped v305 453863

however, the story is the engine came from a large, low mileage military vehicle and put into this truck, but who knows what the doner vehicle May have been, or what parts were interchanged between this and the other engine.

I wish there was some way to track that stamped number to actually know for sure. But I am sure its not the original engine for this truck because there is so little clearance between the tie rod and oil pan drain plug.

The po spent about 5k on the engine swap, and that's using the replacement engine as is, not rebuilding it first. Perhaps that's why I want to learn everything I can about it, and learn to maintain it as perfectly as possible, because I don't have an extra 5 to 10k to spend rebuilding this engine, especially if it has a major break down 2000 miles from home. The final plans for this truck is to use as a long-distance on-road and off-road camper. And I have never been to a "binder bash" or any similar event and look forward to meeting the people who have helped my dream become a reality.

Steve

$5k without a rebuild? I didn't catch that point before for some reason. Holy crap! That's one damn expensive oil pan. What could possibly cost so much? I don't see any visual evidence inside this engine bay of the type of meticulous attention to detail that would naturally come with huge dollars spent. Are there receipts to back up this claim? I'm sorry, but this isn't passing the smell test for me. Just too much evidence of cobble and clabber, with seemingly very little thought put towards proper function and practicality. If it looks like a duck...yada yada. However, you impress me as being the type of person who isn't afraid to right some wrongs. You have your work cut out for you, but I have certainly seen worse.

 

[1975IH200]

Steve, the cylinder number is cast into each intake runner.

#8 is the aft cylinder on the right bank.

Firing order is also cast into the intake manifold...1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2-1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2-1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2-etc.-etc.-etc.

 

[Scoutboy74]

Oops. Sorry steve. I didn't read or answer your question about #8 very well. I wasn't trying to be a wise guy with my one word answer there. I simply quit reading after the words "passenger side". Thanks to scott for clearing that up. That's right bank as viewed from the driver seat.