Michael Mayben
IHPA Tech Moderator - Retired & No Longer Online
Spinning off from this thread:
http://www.forums.IHPartsAmerica.com/basic-tech-questions/906-152-196-bells-same.html
Let's discuss projects involving swapping a spicer t18 four speed tranny into a Scout 80 originally equipped with a t90 three speed box.
And we'll also use the transfer case thread in this forum when appropriate for this subject.
So here's what we start with on this project:
the vehicle is a '63 or so s80 equipped with a 196 (swapped in), an oem d18 twin stick transfer case, and an "option" d44 rear axle geared 4.27. This is the "early" design d44 with 19 spline carrier ends and tapered hubs. This axle incorporates the "offset" pumpkin to accommodate the "offset" output of the d18.
The Scout 800 platform had an option axle that was nearly identical, but used a "centered" output on it's d20 transfer case.
It's possible to use the centered d44 (or a later version d44 say swapped in from a Scout II with 23 spline flanged axles) with either transfer case, though when doing so, the driveshaft angularity is somewhat greater. I have a set of Scout II d44 axles now...but at this point I've not decided which to use. That will be decided later. My current d44 tapered Powr-Lok axle is as fresh as fresh can be, including brakes. So right now I'm leaning towards retaining it which greatly reduces the amount of work needed here. If that ends up being my decision, then the d20 twin stick shown in this pic, will be swapped for a "built" d18 that is currently in the rig and operational every day. That keeps the driveshaft issue oem (except for the shortening that will be done by driveline service in eugene).
Also, the rig will be kept spring under. The beater is my wifepartner's future dd and she wants it kept reasonably close to the ground, though it will sport a tire set that is somewhat taller than oem. The suspension has also been freshened, front caster has been "fixed" with spring shims from ihon, and it has 5" CPT bulletproof shackles added also with new shocks and poly bumpstops. As the front d27 is also fresh and includes the option 10" lockheed brakes which have received much attention, we'll finish the tranny swap first, then decide later on if we wanna change out the front axle. This is not a serious trail/crawl rig, so maximum axle durability is not a consideration here, simplicity and budget is!
And hydraulic clutch actuation will be retained, that is much easier to do than rigging up some kinda monkeemotion mechanical actuation like the oem IH stuff!
In the next few days, I'll know whether the use of an 11" clutch is feasible due to clearance inside the pancake bell housing. If it works, I have a fresh one. If it won't work, then I'll use the existing 10" clutch which is near new but was installed about 15 years ago and then never run! It bites just fine right now, I've used this rig quite a bit in the last year as a tractor to pull stumps with.
Once I've homed in on exactly which parts I'll be using, this tranny will be gutted out for rebuild. If I use the d20, it will be built also...but right now I'm leaning towards the d18...and it has a lower gear set also than the d20.
So that's the big picture at this point, this project will evolve over time and is not a "git 'er dun" kinda deal!
http://www.forums.IHPartsAmerica.com/basic-tech-questions/906-152-196-bells-same.html
Let's discuss projects involving swapping a spicer t18 four speed tranny into a Scout 80 originally equipped with a t90 three speed box.
And we'll also use the transfer case thread in this forum when appropriate for this subject.
So here's what we start with on this project:
the vehicle is a '63 or so s80 equipped with a 196 (swapped in), an oem d18 twin stick transfer case, and an "option" d44 rear axle geared 4.27. This is the "early" design d44 with 19 spline carrier ends and tapered hubs. This axle incorporates the "offset" pumpkin to accommodate the "offset" output of the d18.
The Scout 800 platform had an option axle that was nearly identical, but used a "centered" output on it's d20 transfer case.
It's possible to use the centered d44 (or a later version d44 say swapped in from a Scout II with 23 spline flanged axles) with either transfer case, though when doing so, the driveshaft angularity is somewhat greater. I have a set of Scout II d44 axles now...but at this point I've not decided which to use. That will be decided later. My current d44 tapered Powr-Lok axle is as fresh as fresh can be, including brakes. So right now I'm leaning towards retaining it which greatly reduces the amount of work needed here. If that ends up being my decision, then the d20 twin stick shown in this pic, will be swapped for a "built" d18 that is currently in the rig and operational every day. That keeps the driveshaft issue oem (except for the shortening that will be done by driveline service in eugene).
Also, the rig will be kept spring under. The beater is my wifepartner's future dd and she wants it kept reasonably close to the ground, though it will sport a tire set that is somewhat taller than oem. The suspension has also been freshened, front caster has been "fixed" with spring shims from ihon, and it has 5" CPT bulletproof shackles added also with new shocks and poly bumpstops. As the front d27 is also fresh and includes the option 10" lockheed brakes which have received much attention, we'll finish the tranny swap first, then decide later on if we wanna change out the front axle. This is not a serious trail/crawl rig, so maximum axle durability is not a consideration here, simplicity and budget is!
And hydraulic clutch actuation will be retained, that is much easier to do than rigging up some kinda monkeemotion mechanical actuation like the oem IH stuff!
In the next few days, I'll know whether the use of an 11" clutch is feasible due to clearance inside the pancake bell housing. If it works, I have a fresh one. If it won't work, then I'll use the existing 10" clutch which is near new but was installed about 15 years ago and then never run! It bites just fine right now, I've used this rig quite a bit in the last year as a tractor to pull stumps with.
Once I've homed in on exactly which parts I'll be using, this tranny will be gutted out for rebuild. If I use the d20, it will be built also...but right now I'm leaning towards the d18...and it has a lower gear set also than the d20.
So that's the big picture at this point, this project will evolve over time and is not a "git 'er dun" kinda deal!
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mine will have a d-20 case w/ d-18 guts though! I think my floor will look different! I just hope that the new exhaust that is going in today won't get in the way!
mine is exactly how I wanted and took 10 pieces to get it right.
$500 got me just to the muffler, $90/hr adds up quick! Have fun down in n. Cal!
Scout II's on the other hand weren't and therefore you will need to reinforce the firewall wherever you are going to mount the master cylinder. This will require a bit more fab work and time than the bracket for the slave cylinder that is for sure. Just my 2 cents before you go diving into your project.
a od?
