Reverse = Neutral

A

Aubrey

Member
I have a ’74 Scout II 4x4 (d44/d44) with a tf727 auto and the 345. I bought it from a guy that said reverse used to work but recently failed. When you shift it into reverse it feels like neutral. Nothing happens. No clunk, no change in rpm (from neutral), no movement, and you can push it as if in neutral. I drove it 180 miles home from purchase and have probably put another 20 miles on it since. All forward gears feel fine including low.

I’ve read a lot of mayben’s posts on the transmissions and working on it myself is not really an option. I don’t know what I’m doing and I want it to be reliable. Although there are many things that can be the point of failure it is my understanding that it is likely either the reverse servo or the reverse band. I have phone quotes that a reverse servo fix is $250, $400 and a reverse band fix is $1500, $1800.

My questions… are those the likely issues? Are these prices in line? Are there additional questions that I should ask to vet a good shop? Anyone in the south denver area that can recommend a reputable shop to do the work?
 
Those higher end quotes are way out of line, but typical of a shop that doesn't really want to deal with your old, obsolete vehicle which predates many of the electronic gizmos found on later model cars. Have you checked the fluid level yet? That's really the first thing you should do to rule out a simple possibility. The procedure is as follows. Bring the rig up to operating temperature (minimum 15 minute run time). Park on a level surface and set the brake and/or block a wheel. Move the gear selector to neutral. Tf 727 fluid level must be checked in neutral, not park. A low reading on the dipstick requires pints, not quarts to bring it back to a safe level. These transmissions have been known to operate very erratically with a fluid level that is below the safe margin. Chances are, there is something more catastrophic going on, but you just might get lucky.
 
That price for reverse band is way way out of line, I took my tf727 in to a transmission shop, and they rebuilt it for 878.00 dollars took them three days. If it wasnt a IH I could have dropped off my old one and walked out with a new one in about 10 minutes, but since the bell housing is so different they had to rebuild mine. This is alaska prices, everything is expensive up here, you are sure to find some place to rebuild it cheaper than I paid.
 
For a point of reference, our basic, performance-built 727 for an ihc application is currently priced at $995 exchange.

Transmission shops charge what they think they can get away with. The actual "value" of a repair is controlled only by what they think they can get away with.

There is no automatic trans that is easier to work with than any 727 (or 904). But it's much simpler to replace the low/reverse actuator with the tranny still mounted when the vehicle is a pickup/Travelall since those don't use an intermediate spacer and transfer case that must be removed to access the pivot pin for the actuator itself. That means the "cost" to do just the actuator on a Scout II is going to be at least 2>3 hours longer when compared to a pickall.

Unless there is proof that the trans has been recently rebuilt, no shop is going to want to do just an actuator replacement without doing a complete overhaul. I would not do it myself either.

Your problem is not a "reverse servo" issue. If it was, the transmission would not perform in forward gear at all. Either the actuator has broken into two pieces, or the actuator "strut" (the small rectangular steel intermediate part) has fallen out of position because the low/reverse band was way too loose at some point.
 
Thanks michael.

I wonder what shipping costs might be for one of those units to co. So it sounds like an actuator or band issue which could result in a full rebuild. I really hope it isn't something so severe. I read some stuff Tom hand has on the web too which has been helpful.

The place that originally sold my Scout here in denver (federal valley motors) is sending me to a trans shop down the road from them. Hopefully they trust them on their other IH work.
 
The transmissions I've shipped from my location run around $140 using ups ground transfer.

Any knowledgeable transmission shop can simply drop the pan and find the broken lever component in it along with strut (the strut does not always fall out of position though). No need to even pull the valve body to see this.

If they can determine the root cause (such as I've suggested), they would then know exactly what kind of true costs will be involved in making the repair so you will know what budget is called for.
 
For my reference in case it comes to that, is that just a basic rebuild? Would it include any improvements, adjustments, vents, shift kit, etc?
 
The transmissions we supply are built up using the same level of components that have been used by B&M for many years. However, B&M no longer supplies a built transmission for replacement.

This means that super-duty metals and frictions are used, high-end bands, and a full boat B&M shift reprogramming kit. Does not include a bolt-in sprag or any different servo pistons which are not needed unless the unit is going into drag race service. These are built on transmission cores I have in stock that have no current problems other than long-term wear to the frictions.

The customer removes the tail housing(transfer case adapter) and bull gear from their old transmission and mounts to the fresh unit. The correct gaskets will come with the replacement transmission.

There is also a core charge to ensure we receive in return a rebuildable core, so the customer is responsible for those charges separately. For those amounts, call ihon hq and confirm the typical full boat price. Number is 530.268.0864.
 
aubrey said:
thanks michael.

I wonder what shipping costs might be for one of those units to co. So it sounds like an actuator or band issue which could result in a full rebuild. I really hope it isn't something so severe. I read some stuff Tom hand has on the web too which has been helpful.

The place that originally sold my Scout here in denver (federal valley motors) is sending me to a trans shop down the road from them. Hopefully they trust them on their other IH work.
Click to expand...

Yeah ac trans downt the street from federal valley mtrs knows there stuff. Earl used to do $800 exchange but he has seemed to get away from doing them anymore. Ac trans is the place earl used to have do all his IH auto trans work accept for minor stuff that could be done in house.

A couple of years ago I had dave at high country trans in aurora do mine. I puchased all my own parts and brought the trans to him and I $250 + $90 for a torque converter. Installed it myself.
Btw what is ac trans getting these days for the re-build??
Good luck
 
afireinside said:
ac trans is the place earl used to have do all his IH auto trans work accept for minor stuff that could be done in house.

Btw what is ac trans getting these days for the re-build??
Click to expand...


Cool. Good to hear.
I don't know yet. I haven't been able to get it over there yet. I had a starting issue so put on a Ford starter solenoid switch. Then I had to put on new belts and hoses. Was set for this coming week to drop it off and now my lower radiator hose engine side connection has a nasty leak. I don't know if I didn't get it on there very well or if I have a more serious issue. So I'll be working on that before I drive too far. I'm in englewood so it's no short trip around the corner to get to ac.
 
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