Oil from all orifices and other delayed maintenance

kjc-01

kjc-01

Member
Now that michael has helped me get my carburetor in tip-top shape and the ignition system has received the once-over, I'm ready to chase down the rest of the maintenance items I've been ignoring for the last eight years. It's a 1970 1200d 4x4 3/4 ton pickup with a 345 engine, stan's headers, pertronix ignitor, 33" BFG a/ts, 4-speed manual trans w/ 125k miles. Otherwise stock. Used to be my daily driver/camping rig, now it sits in the garage dripping oil and waiting until I need to haul something. My biggest pet peeve is it leaks oil everywhere, so I want to go after the high leak reduction-to-effort ratio solutions first. I figure the valve cover gaskets are an easy place to start and it is the highest place I see oil on the engine- I have a set of the rubber ones from outback parts to replace the cork ones that are on there now. Aside from good cleaning and making sure the sheet metal is flat, any hard-learned recommendations? Put 'em on dry, use a tack adhesive, torque levels, etc.?

I'm a bit intimidated by the valley pan/intake gasket job...how much does an intake manifold weigh? The rear main seal likely needs replacing - again, last time the mechanic said the shaft was grooved and would waste the new seal in short order. Anybody tried the bond-on shaft re-surfacing shim/collar bit? I need to replace the exhaust manifold gaskets, too but I recall that being fairly easy (but I am 10 years older now!). The coolant is going to get changed out, I'm considering flushing it, too. While talking cooling, how long does a stock water pump last? I've been thinking of buying one just to be ready for when it does give up the ghost. And brakes...definitely need to inspect the brakes.

So, what are some of the key maintenance tasks that I have been ignoring on this vehicle that should be undertaken before I get sidetracked by the next project?

Now let the suggestions begin!
 
The intake manifold is heavy around 75lbs, so I recommend having a helper or using a engine hoist, to save your back. It also makes it easier to install w/o moving the gaskets out of place.
 
Have you checked / replaced the pcv valve?

Water pumps seem to last a long time (to me) -- I have had two replaced in 36 years / 195,000 miles.

Also, they seem to give some warning by "weeping" at first -- if you check your vehicle periodically. Though, I had one of them go from "weeping" to good sized leak in about 200 miles (from when I first noticed it).

Valve cover gaskets --

I have used 3m 77 spray adhesive to attach gaskets to the valve cover (use clothes pins to hold in place until dry). I think michael uses a different product.

No adhesive to hold the valve cover to the head...

If someone has used adhesive on the head in the past, you need to remove it, imo

check the oil drain back holes for "debris" - rear (firewall) corners of the head.

Torque -- I would say "snug" (8 - 10 ft lbs, maybe...)
 
Robertc - the pcv valve is the non-serviceable type, but I sprayed some carb cleaner through it when cleaning the carb. The manifold vacuum is strong, so it's not stuck open. Not sure if it is stuck closed, though. A new one is on my shopping list, though. Keep the suggestions coming!
 
kjc-01 said:
My biggest pet peeve is it leaks oil everywhere, so I want to go after the high leak reduction-to-effort ratio solutions first. I figure the valve cover gaskets are an easy place to start and it is the highest place I see oil on the engine- I have a set of the rubber ones from outback parts to replace the cork ones that are on there now. Aside from good cleaning and making sure the sheet metal is flat, any hard-learned recommendations? Put 'em on dry, use a tack adhesive, torque levels, etc.?
Click to expand...

I'm a bigger fan of cork gaskets than the rubber ones but using this method shouldn't matter. The flanges need to be absolutely flat and the bolt holes peened back flush. Clean the vc and the top ridge of the head with lacquer thinner. Apply a thin (1/16" or so) coat of the right stuff to the vc, spread over the entire contact surface. Apply the gasket and press into place with your fingers making sure it is properly aligns with the vc. Bolt the vc to the head, torque bolts to 3 ft lbs (watch the gasket, stop when it starts to move but you don't need more than about 3 ft lbs on the bolts). Let it sit for 24 hours. Remove the vc, apply any gasket sealer you like on the head side and let it set for another 24 hours. I like hylomar because it's non hardening. If you aren't going to take it off again you could use the right stuff on the head side side too but you'll loose the gasket if you have to take the vc off again.


kjc-01 said:
I'm a bit intimidated by the valley pan/intake gasket job...how much does an intake manifold weigh? The rear main seal likely needs replacing - again, last time the mechanic said the shaft was grooved and would waste the new seal in short order. Anybody tried the bond-on shaft re-surfacing shim/collar bit? I need to replace the exhaust manifold gaskets, too but I recall that being fairly easy (but I am 10 years older now!). The coolant is going to get changed out, I'm considering flushing it, too. While talking cooling, how long does a stock water pump last? I've been thinking of buying one just to be ready for when it does give up the ghost. And brakes...definitely need to inspect the brakes.
Click to expand...

Don't know about a shim collar, never used one.

Intake mani weighs in at 75 lbs or so. Use brush on copper coat on both sides of the steel gaskets

valley pan is like the other sheet metal parts, it's got to be flat and straight on the contact edges. It might not fit the curve like it should and a gap can exist that needs to be corrected. Bolt it to the heads with no gasket, check the gap with a feeler guage. Then with a hammer and dolly try and reshape the curve to fit the valley correctly. I'd recommend the right stuff for both sides of the valley gasket.
 
Since we're talking gasket dressing, do the exhaust manifold/header gaskets or doughnuts benefit from any goop? I did the last ones dry.
 
kjc-01 said:
since we're talking gasket dressing, do the exhaust manifold/header gaskets or doughnuts benefit from any goop? I did the last ones dry.
Click to expand...

The e gasket will not [edit] Benefit from "goop". It will burn right off.
Just put a jack under the head pipe so it cant drop, take the bolts out, pull the old gasket, slip in a new one and install bolts (change them to stainless) with some copper anti-sieze
 
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Tim, great write-up on the valve cover gasket installation!

I looked at three different supply houses this weekend and no one is listing the threaded pcv valve that this truck uses anymore. Does anybody know a vendor/part number that can be used to order one (or will you sell me your serviceable one)? Otherwise, I am thinking of rigging up an in-line solution with the grommet-type pcv valve that the scouts use. Will any 304/345 pcv valve work on this engine, or or there different sizes/models for different engine configurations? Right now I have a 1/2 inch tube going from the old threaded pcv valve to the intake manifold. If I pick up a Scout/grommet one, what size tube will it want on each end, and which end goes towards the valve cover?
 
Your's being a 1970 engine, May be different but all the pcv valves I have ever seen on 345's are in the middle of the valley pan at the back of the engine, they push into a rubber grommet and are available at napa. The screw in device in the valve cover is a spark arrester and was available through light line dealers as recently as two years ago. The pcv grommet was available at that time too, it is also a sourse of oil leaking/ puddling at the back of the valley pan.
 
Great, I love being the one w/ the odd setup. My flame arrestor is on the driver-side valve cover and the pcv valve is screwed into the passenger-side valve cover w/ what looks like a 3/8 pipe thread. Here is a link to a product similar to what I am trying to assemble: Travelall parts.com
 
The "simple" threaded pcv valves are no longer available.

If you have one like the thread (I listed) for cleaning one; then, you could clean it. But, I think the one in the link is for an older p/u than yours.

For the "push-in" valley pan pcv valve on my 73, I use fram fv237 -- there are many different part numbers depending on "brand". The "inlet" diameter is larger than "outlet" diameter -- like the picture...
 
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The reason that the thread in style isn't available is because it is a "non wear" part, it is designed to be serviced, like robertc noted. So unless there is excessive corrosion or a broken spring there is no reason to replace it. Though if the rig is on the second million miles it May have enough wear to justify replacement.

It never ceases to amaze me how much that other place tries to rip people off for their parts. You can replicate that "kit" for about 1/4 that price. A pcv for a later ('72 up) sv, a 1/2" hose x 3/8" npt fitting from the hardware store, and a length of 1/2" emission hose (don't use heater hose it is not designed for vac or oil/fuel vapor). You do need to be careful with the pcv selection as some mfgs list the incorrect one w/o the 1/2" nipple on the bottom.
 
eric vanburen said:
the reason that the thread in style isn't available is because it is a "non wear" part, it is designed to be serviced, like robertc noted. So unless there is excessive corrosion or a broken spring there is no reason to replace it. Though if the rig is on the second million miles it May have enough wear to justify replacement.
Click to expand...

I wish I had the original serviceable one, but it is a disposable replacement with ~10yrs on it, hence the need to jury rig a new replacement.
 
Here's a thought. Since you are re-gasketing anyway, how about checking with Jeff for a later model valley pan and another valve cover (you'd need one with no hole and one with a threaded hole for the spark arrester). Get a new grommet, pcv valve and arrester someplace cheaper than "that other place"......problem solved forever, and it will be clean.
 
eric vanburen said:
the reason that the thread in style isn't available is because it is a "non wear" part, it is designed to be serviced, like robertc noted. So unless there is excessive corrosion or a broken spring there is no reason to replace it. Though if the rig is on the second million miles it May have enough wear to justify replacement.

It never ceases to amaze me how much that other place tries to rip people off for their parts. You can replicate that "kit" for about 1/4 that price. A pcv for a later ('72 up) sv, a 1/2" hose x 3/8" npt fitting from the hardware store, and a length of 1/2" emission hose (don't use heater hose it is not designed for vac or oil/fuel vapor). You do need to be careful with the pcv selection as some mfgs list the incorrect one w/o the 1/2" nipple on the bottom.
Click to expand...

Certainly there are "thread-in" pcv valves that are throwaway design!! Those were used in IH applications on all gasoline engines at some point. They are identical to the push-in style except for a threaded nipple on one end.

I deal with those quite often on IH vehicles from the late 60's>early 70's.

We have addressed this "pcv" deal many times in these forums. There is no "one way" that a pcv system was implemented and then evolved over many years for all IH engines in the various platforms!

The most common "drivability" issue I deal with continuously with this old shit is the wrong pcv installed in an incorrect location/manner. Second most common...no pcv installed at all which is called a big fuckin' vacuum leak. Dumfucks delete the pcv because someone said it was an "emissions" part and the engine would run better without it.

And third most common, two flame arrestors installed instead of one flame arrestor and one pcv. Many IH pcv systems use no flame arrestor component at all.

Parts lookups and parts vendors who claim "one way" is how all systems were done are simply blowing smoke and do not take the time to learn this stuff...that is certainly reflected in the lack of attention to their customer and lack of providing correct information. When we here at ihon find a mistake (and yes we all make mistakes), as soon as it's validated, we correct it. And many times we only find our errors because our customer communicates with us in an effective manner!

This forum is a big part of our success, it allows effective direct communication with our customers regarding the nuances of these vehicles so that they May be serviced in a correct manner using correct components.

Maybe we need to work up a sticky regarding the "pcv" topic???
 
It seems that my 71 1210 is suffering from the exact same problems that yours is and is the same setup. Leaks everywhere in the engine bay, I mean everywhere. This thread has cleared up some confusion but I'm not completely sure on what I am staring at on my valve cover. The valve cover on the drivers side houses the flame arrester correct? Is the pcv is in the valley pan behind the carb, or is the pcv the item circled in yellow? I think I am making this harder than it needs to be. Is the best "leak-free" solution to get a valve cover for the passenger side with no holes then place the pcv in the valley pan? This of course with new valve cover gaskets and a grommet. Thanks in advance

engine.jpg
 
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Your engine ventilation/pcv plumbing is just fine as shown in the pic!

One more time...there were many variations of how a pcv system was plumbed , there is no one "right" way.

Some valley covers have no fittings whatsoever. Some have only a "nipple" for a hose connection, but below the nipple on the inside of the cover is baffle/oil separator. Some have a hole for the grommet (with baffle running below the hole on the inside.

Your driver side valve cover is a flame arrestor, that is the "clean" air path for air drawn through the air filter and into the engine.

For information regarding how to clean that pcv valve you have, review this thread:

http://www.forums.IHPartsAmerica.com/gas-engine-tech/2244-servicing-cleanable-pcv-valve.html

On the passenger side is an "ac sparkplug" cleanable pcv valve. Do not throw that away...clean it on a regular basis!

Your system is considered a "third generation" ventilation/pcv system, it's referred to as the "closed" type pcv.

It's not broke, there is absolutely no reason to change anything regarding pcv, just service the valve and clean the flame arrestor also using a solvent soak.

If you simply try to mount a pcv inna valley cover which is not designed for one, the valve will simply suck oil vapor and liquid right out of the lifter chamber. The valley covers designed for a pcv mounted with the grommet have a baffle spotwelded to the cover underneath which serves as a oil separator. Pic attached shows a valley cover before it was cleaned as removed from one of my engines...that one does use a grommet-type valley cover, you can see the baffle.
 

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Hey thanks michael! Now that definitely clears all my questions up! I'll clean the pcv and keep the setup how it is. Cheers!
 
As michael stated your setup is correct.

The flame arrestor (driver's side as mm stated) and the pcv valve can be cleaned -- I have used multiple "applications" of berryman's carb cleaner.

For reference -- here is a picture of a valley pan pcv valve on my 73 CA smog 392...
 

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