new points, no spark...

Y

yabbaman

New member
Ok.... First, long time lurker, first time post...

1973 Scout II

345
within last six months
727 auto rebuilt
rebuilt 2210 carb (with correct gaskets, I read first!)
new cap, rotor, plugs an wires.

The beast was running decent. Finally got around to checking distributor. The points were shot, looked almost original, they were so worn. I replaced them with the exact same part in the Holley dizzy. Carquest part number 50-3566 also known as part number IH-4281xp. Now...no spark, no nothing.

Everything is connected in the same way, distributor was not moved from its original location. Used my induction timing light over wire from coil to cap, no light. Nothing on any of the plugs either.

I did rotate engine by hand to set gap, would that affect timing? Please, I need a direction!!

Ran fine this morning, now with the new points an condensor, nothing!!!
 
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Hah! Found it. The wire from neg on coil to points set had frayed. Made up a new one, the beast is growlin again! Thanks for steering me in the right direction. I was incredibly frustrated last night.
 
New issue has risen...wandering timing, stuttering, slight backfiring, smelly exhaust (very gassy), no power and getting even worse mileage than usual. Distributor death?

Rechecked points gap
no vacuum leaks to be found, sitting around 17 at 5500 ft
have yet to check compression...

So frustrating, she ran pretty darn good on points that had no business working, replaced em and been nothing but crap since

and...aftermarket tach bounces around like mad... Will sit mostly correct at 750 during idle, but any throttle, under load or in neutral and the needle bounces all over the damn place. At times sitting at zero for several seconds, which cant be correct as the timing light is still flashing away.

Grrrrrrrr
 
The erratic tach bounce could be as simple as a poor connection with the signal wire connected to the coil, the switched power wire, or the ground wire.

With wandering timing, I would suspect a mechanical advance issue. Certain internal parts of your distributor are likely worn and sloppy or sticking. This is a very common issue on these old piles. The parts weren't made to last forever. The unit can be rebuilt or replaced. The unburnt fuel smell indicates a carb that is out of tune, which is being exacerbated by poor ignition performance.
 
Scoutboy!! Read so much of your advice. Im honored.

Tach bounce...checked all connections, solid as can be. Stumped on that one.

Holley dizzy with vacuum advance, gonna check advance after work. Im not surprised the things worn, looks old and worn and a reman...
A 2210, out of tune, thats crazy talk!! I fiddle with that thing constantly. The carb flathead screwdriver rides shotgun with me.

Im worried that the distributor May be done for, considering the very recent changes. Got new coil, cap, rotor, wires, plugs, points, condensor....

Is there a reasonably priced dist. Upgrade? Should I go back to a points from the one an only ihonlynorth?
 
I try to do what my feeble brain allows. Sometimes I hit the Mark, and sometimes I miss 'er by a mile. Your continued ihon patronage and participation honors us all.

reman. Holley points distributor for IH v8 engine - International Scout parts

That's your reasonably priced, rock-solid, turn key option. Now, if you're fairly handy and you have the service manual to follow the step by step procedure, you can do the job yourself. I'm going to qualify and say that I have never performed this repair, so I must refrain from advising you on any specific how-to's. You might just give your bouncy tach a free pass until you have the engine running right. She might clear up and play purdy for ya once the engine is purring like it should.
 
Si senior, I been eyeballin that exact same dizzy...

But after shellin out major bones for the tranny, I'm a bit strapped for cash

I May not have a choice considerin the Scout is my daily driver... Gots ta say I love drivin it to work every day, problems an all. Makes every drive an adventure!!

But hell, I only got one life, might as well spend it on me Scout!

Looked at the picture of the new dizzy, its so pretty!! I just gotta order it!

I shall be sure to repost once it arrives and is installed.
 
Copy on the tight fundage. I'm on the messiah's payroll at the moment. After purchasing the staples...booze, tobacco, and prostitutes, there ain't much left 'fer a feller ta make do on from week to week, but I guess I'd be in a real bad way if'n I didn't have it at all. If he'd put half as much effort into creating jobs for folks as he's putting into getting re-upped, he might be worth a toss...naw, nevermind. That's just the alcohol talking.
Now back to relevant tech...should you choose to at some point down the road, you can always convert that distributor to electronic with a pertronix points eliminator. Yes, you could do that with your present distributor too, but considering that its overall condition is in some doubt, that would probably be lipstick on a pig.
 
Consider replacing the condenser with the one you took out!the motor was running satisfactory with it. If you have an old condenser from maybe 15 years ago = made in usa, try that one.
 
Well hell....I tossed the old condenser with the severely rotten points. You really think the condenser would cause missfires, backfires and really rough idle? Not to mention the fact that with the timing set at 5 btdc I will get random fluctuations to several degrees before tdc....

Yesterday, on the way home from work, idling at a red light, backfires and dies. Wouldn't start. No spark at plugs or coil. Meter reads open coil. Screwed with it for almost two hours, suddenly it starts.... Coil suddenly read correct. I sputtered home.
In driveway next day. No start, no spark. Coil reads open. Twisted the distributor. Ignition. Rough idle and fluctuating timing. Wandering almost 8 degrees.

I'm at my breaking point....
 
If the coil is getting overheated either from engine heat or full voltage, the coil May be part of the problem. Check the voltage to the coil when engine is running. I believe it should be about 8.6 volts. Only gets 12 volts for starting. Maybe some prev owner did some wireing under the dash and removed the ignition resistor wire? If engine fails again, check voltage to the coil. Consider replacing the old coil and get a replacement for the condenser. If the timing is 'bouncing', that would be a mechanical issue with the internals of the distributor. Did you apply the lube that came with the points on the dist cam and rubbing block of the points? If the points have the 'felt wick' that rides against the dist cam, 2 drops of clean motor oil should be applied to the felt to keep the rubbing block from wearing.
 
I lubed the cam lobe for the points in the distributor... No brush on the points.

Voltage at run is about 10 volts... I noticed that the coil, new by the way, has two wires running to the positive. One of which is the braided white "resistance" wire. The concern I have is that both the resistance wire and the constant 12v wire are connected to the same power source coming through the firewall. It seems that one or the other is redundant and should be connected to something else, perhaps the 12v wire should be connected to the start position while the resistance wire should be connected to the run position?

This thing has run just fine up until about a month ago. Everything went to shit when I changed those nasty little points and the condensor.

The new distributor should be here on Wednesday, I know the one in the engine now aint good, all sorts of horizontal play. It just seems like there is something more at work here
 
As I don't have a Scout, I wouldn't want to suggest how the wireing should be connected. I am sure someone will have that info for you. Will the new distributor have the points setup or the pertronics conversion?
 
Whether Scout or pickall, there's no difference when it comes to wiring for a points distributor. From what you describe, there is a potential issue here. The braided wire is a resistor wire and provides your switched on power supply. The other wire connected to the coil + should be originating at the starter solenoid. This wire provides a full voltage bypass during starter crank only. Once the engine is running, the braided wire takes over, and the bypass wire is dead. If this is not the way you have it wired now, you need to make the necessary correction. If the wire intended to be the start crank bypass is originating from the key switch instead, then it is bypassing the resistor wire at all times, which defeats the purpose of the resistor wire.
 
Scoutboy, I had a feeling that wiring was incorrect. Gotta love what po's do to these things....I found speaker wire connecting the oil pressure gauge to the sender unit!
To clarify, the braided wire and the wire from starter solenoid will connect to the same positive terminal on the coil. The braided wire originates from ignition, run or on position, and the other wire should run from starter solenoid. Is there a position on the solenoid I should look for?

Bill, going with the points for now, as I couldnt afford both the new distributor and the pertronix, but that is an upgrade I plan on making in the near future!!
 
Speaker wire is neither the best nor the worst choice for that application. If these two examples represent the worst of the po virus on your rig, you're light years ahead of most folks in that regard. While you're performing inspections, now is the time to take a good, hard look at that resistor wire from end to end. If the length has been modified or if the insulation has been damaged, you should probably ditch it in favor of a standard 14ga wire interrupted by a porcelain ballast resistor with an approximate 1.8 ohm value. Since you plan on installing a points eliminating module at some point, this would be a logical progression to that end anyway. Stepping up to a ignitor II or iii if available is well worth the minor difference in price. When that time comes, you won't need a ballasted feed to the coil, so the funky resistor wire would have to go then anyway. With a ballast resistor in place, you'd simply need to bypass it by joining the wire ends together minus the resistor block. If some emergency arose which required you to revert back to points, the wire ends could be easily separated and re-attached to their former positions on the resistor block.
 
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