Mystery axle noise

I'd say negatory on both. The bottom might be beefy, but in the picture it looks a little shallow. I made one like that for a Jeep friend, lucky for us I was in a machine shop at the time and it was purdy. With out it being forged, we stretched it good but it held up.

Here's link:
universal hub puller - otc 7394
 
I have one of the "fixed leg" hub pullers which is a component in some slide hammer sets, it will not mount to any spicer axle tapered hub. On top of that, it's not got enough strength to pull the hubs unless they are already not seated properly on the taper.

That fixed leg puller was originally developed for some GM-supply axles and chrysler stuff, not spicer.

And using a slide hammer on any of those type pullers will really fook with the bearing systems on the axle and destroy the bearing/seal retainer, do not use a slide hammer on these spicer tapered axle hubs!!!!

And the puller jack screw on the otc system must be lubricated with bearing grease or anti-seize.
 
I got some new drums since I knew I'd need them eventually anyway. Took the old messed up drum off and took some pics. The first is just the whole thing. The second is from an angle to show the studs. Does that look right? I know they are not original since they are right hand thread, but the shoulder is causing interference with the drum going on. It looks like the reason my other drum has screwed up holes for the studs is because a po got the drum part way on and just torqued it the rest of the way to get over the shoulders.

If things were right, would the stud be basically the same width as the threads all the way to the surface? I'm guessing the my correct course of action here is to get these studs out and replace them with ones with a shallower shoulder?

By the way, how do I make the images show up in the message so people don't have to click the links?
 

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Wow, that's cheap. If you buy one tell us what you think. I'm not sure the otc unit is not roc stuff so the price break is even more impressive. I own the otc version and will see if it has a makers Mark, or coo marl.
 
does that look right? I know they are not original since they are right hand thread, but the shoulder is causing interference with the drum going on.
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That's what mine look like. The only studs I could find that had the right length and shoulder diameter to have the right interference fit for the hub needed to be "adjusted" as follows:
replacement studs that follow the same profile of the serrated shoulder need to have the exposed shoulder that goes past the thickness of the hub turned down a bit. What I did was chuck one in a drill press, and with it running, run a file against the part I wanted to reduce; just like on a lathe only now it's vertical. T
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Then the drums will fit fine. There's hundreds of stud variations including how the knurling(serrations) is fine or coarse to fit the hub like original and not work loose. You can draw the new ones in with some extra lug nuts, never seize on the threads and washers so they go in straight and saves you from having to balance the hub on some pipe or a vise and trying to keep the stud straight while using a hammer method.
 
mastiff said:
I got some new drums since I knew I'd need them eventually anyway. Took the old messed up drum off and took some pics. The first is just the whole thing. The second is from an angle to show the studs. Does that look right? I know they are not original since they are right hand thread, but the shoulder is causing interference with the drum going on. It looks like the reason my other drum has screwed up holes for the studs is because a po got the drum part way on and just torqued it the rest of the way to get over the shoulders.

If things were right, would the stud be basically the same width as the threads all the way to the surface? I'm guessing the my correct course of action here is to get these studs out and replace them with ones with a shallower shoulder?

By the way, how do I make the images show up in the message so people don't have to click the links?
Click to expand...

The absolute perfect replacement wheel stud which will solve all your problems is a dorman 610260. It's 1/4" longer in threaded length which works nicely if you wanna run closed end lug nuts for thread protection (I do). The first 1/4" of the threaded segment has no threads which protects 'em when ya hang a rim from the stud when horsing a tire change. And they will have a "tapered" type shoulder right where the brake drum holes engage, just enough stickout of the shoulder to help center the drum I(it actually pilots off the center hole), but not prevent full drum seating just by pushing on with your hands.

These are right hand threads, 1/2"x20tpi by far the most common lug nut pattern. The same studs work perfectly on the front also, so you can make the drums removable without tearing down the spindles.

Drive or press right into the tapered rear hubs or the front hubs, by supporting with the tubing buck or press fixture...much nicer and more effective than oem crap.

Best pic I have of this, look closely where the stud exits the hub...see the tapered segment!
 

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Great! Is there any way to get the studs off with the hub still on? I'll probably end up ordering a puller, but I could get this stud job going if it's possible.
 
mastiff said:
great! Is there any way to get the studs off with the hub still on? I'll probably end up ordering a puller, but I could get this stud job going if it's possible.
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Sure...but it's tedious! And ya really need a helper.

Since your studs are already botched (previously replaced), they are most likely not really all that "tight" in the hole (hopefully). So rig a support behind the hub flange beside each stud head to support it (big pry bar or crow bar??). Then try a luv tap with the hammer. If it doesn't move, then give it a hate tap. If it still doesn't move git the big hammer and give it a hate whack!

To install the replacements...do not use a lug nut!!!! Get a proper grade eight 1/2-20 nut (and a few spares) and a stack of grade eight washers (hardend), important!!!: use anti-seize (bein' a flyboy you know what that is!!!) on the threads!! Then pull each stud into position in the flange, you can "feel" when they are fully seated.

Have you "spun" the axle flanges with it up on stands to determine if ya got any runout? No sense in installing studs if there is runout.

I use anti-seize on the stud threads anytime I r&r a lug nut.
 
One more thing and then I'm gone to the bee!

I'd remove at least one of the bogus studs and take it with ya for a sample when ya shop for replacements since ya know that is not the part ya want!! The p/n I used for this is one of many that could work, there are thousands of patterns of wheel studs available, each has minute differences in the dorman line.

I'm fortunate to have several sources for stuff like this locally, when I locked in on the p/n I posted, it was the "best" selection out of at least six other possibles which would have worked ok. But my choice was driven by the fact I wanted the drums to be able to be removed by hand, easily, on the side of the trail/road!

One retailer I deal with for this stuff has a fairly complete dorman wheel stud assortment that is fully stocked all the time...took me a few hours squatted on the floor to work out the best deal for my setup with a hub, drum, and dial caliper on hand, but be careful, many times those assortments are badly mixed up...make sure the p/n on each stud you select matches! Best bet is a buy a full box, iirc, dorman wheel studs are packaged in boxes of 20 in the smaller sizes like those.
 
Can anyone tell me the size of the castle nut that holds the hub to the axle? I think it must be 1", but it could be 15/16" or something crazy too. If anyone has the full designation that would be great, I'll just order some up from mcmaster. The local shops aren't helping me.

I pounded out the old studs on one side and put in some of the ones michael suggested. Seems to work great and the out of roundness seems to be gone with the new drum.
 
Well, I got all the new studs in and I think I found the source of the noise. The new studs made the situation more obvious. I'll try to explain... There is the metal piece that spans from one drum to the other, just under the wheel cylinder. As the wheel turned, the back of the studs would occasionally hit it. The new studs have a bigger back part, so they hit almost all the time.

The reason they are hitting, I believe, is because the metal arm that connects to the parking brake is bent. It was really bent when I got the axle, and I pounded it back pretty close, but it turns out that the way it was bent pushed the other piece outward a little, causing the noise.

So, I got the thing out again and I can try pounding it some more, but does anyone know where I can just get a new/good one? I'm attaching a pic.
 

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Okay, here's where I'm at. Turns out my father-in-law had a small press and we used it to get the part flattened out. Amazing what a press can do so easily. Pounding with a bfh just wasn't cutting it. Anyway, I installed it and the studs were still hitting. :mad2: I eventually disassembled both sides so I could compare, and that cross piece that was being hit was simply bent out. I didn't even notice when I installed it because it was bent in the long dimension and wasn't noticeable without comparing to a good one. The metal is soft and I pounded it to match.

So, now I have it all installed with the correct wheel studs on both side, news drums, and nothing is hitting. The original noise is now gone.

The next problem is that I still have the "non-concentric" problem. I was hoping it was all the drum's fault, but I can see with my eye that the passenger side hub is wobbling as it goes around. The symptom while driving is that I can hear the drum scraping the shoe on and off periodically. :icon_down:

I have the $50 pulller on order, and I'll probably hit harbor freight today to get a runout indicator. What am I up against here though? The hub could be tweaked, or the axle could be tweaked. I think the hubs are obtainable from thejeep.com for $70, maybe someplace else? How about axles? Is the length unique to Scout, or will an old Jeep one do the trick? For example: Jeep willys cj Dana 44 d44 rear axle axel shaft tapered:ebay motors (item 120445069335 end time jul-13-09 18:30:00 pdt)

Thanks.
 
Charlie,

great news on fixen the noise!!!


I have learned to live with my warped drums, still stops fine. Just too much money to replace them. I think my four drums are original.

The Scout 44, with respect to the hubs and axles, as far as I have found are specific to our Scout. I know Mike or Jeff Ismail will have the parts. I buy what I can find that May some day help support my habit :crazy: :cryin:
 
Hmm, sounds like you're suggesting I live with it. It's true that it does stop okay, and I do have bigger fish to fry (motor, trans, t-case). Still, I'd sure like to have it right.

So you think even the hub is Scout unique?

By the way, the diagram in the manual shows a "lubrication plug". Is that intended to have a zerk put into it, or to be filled with grease with a needle attachment?
 
mastiff said:
hmm, sounds like you're suggesting I live with it. It's true that it does stop okay, and I do have bigger fish to fry (motor, trans, t-case). Still, I'd sure like to have it right.
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I am only stating how I handled my out of round drums. All else has been checked for run out and I found it fine. My rear drums are the 11 x 1 3/4 and are true. The fronts are 10 x 2 and are a bit out of round but like I said work better than I expected from a 60's vintage truck.

mastiff said:
So you think even the hub is Scout unique?
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That is what I have come to believe.



mastiff said:
By the way, the diagram in the manual shows a "lubrication plug". Is that intended to have a zerk put into it, or to be filled with grease with a needle attachment?
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The manual states to remove plug and inject one ounce of grease so I assumed use a needle and how I do it.
 
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