My TF727 wont shift into 3rd

C

cgreen

New member
Hey all,

just bought a '73 Scout II with a 345 and 727. The tranny won't upshift from 2nd to third at all. Im not sure if the po just let it sit or what, atf looks good. Ive already checked the adjustment on my kickdown mechanism and it seems to be correctly adjusted. Any help on other things that I May be able to check on my own (without taking it to a shop) would be greatly appreciated... Tks
 
The failure you've described could be the result of the kickdown band inside the trans being either out of adjustment or broken. The first thing to do is make sure the fluid level is correct. You say the fluid looks good which I interpret as meaning the color is red rather than brown or black. To check the level, bring the engine up to full operating temperature (minimum 20 minute run time). Park on a level surface. After slowly cycling the shift lever through all gear positions, place it in neutral and with the engine still idling, pull the trans dipstick. If the level is below the bottom safe Mark, ad dexron fluid to bring the level into the safe range. This will take pints, not quarts. Post up after you've checked this with your results and we'll go from there.
 
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You are correct in that the fluid is red not brown or black. I checked the fluid prior to posting this when I was out driving her around town trying to get it to "loosen up". It was definitely not low, if anything it was just a little bit high. I found a used 727 on cl for $425, would I be better off trying to make this one work or just go with another working one? Tks in advance
 
This was checked with engine idling in neutral? Very important. Is the advertised 727 for an International Harvester with v8 engine? A mopar 727 will not mate to the 345. That price seems a bit high for a used trans anyway. Let's spend some more time trying to determine what's going on with your current unit.
 
Yessir, I did check it in neutral... It looked to be at least a pint or two high (not sure if that matters). I did notice that when I adjusted the kickdown link that it took a little longer to shift from 1st to 2nd and now it shifts much harder. I also read on here that other people have experienced similar issues where their 727 will only shift to 3rd around 70 mph. I tried getting her up as fast as I am comfortable pushing it right now and still no shifty.... I'll admit, I dont know sh!t about automatic transmissions so thanks for the tips
 
Too low or too high either way is not optimum. I doubt that's the cause of the issue, but it would be best to bring the level back into the safe range. As I stated earlier, this is most likely an internal issue of some kind, but there are still some things that can be checked externally, just to rule out simple stuff. It sounds to me like the adjustment you made to the kd linkage involved rotating the clevis fitting counter clockwise which would lengthen the rod. This extends the duration between shift points and the upshifts feel more pronounced as a result. Here are some things to check:

1. Ensure that both the throttle linkage and kd linkage are free of any binds or restrictions that would prohibit full travel. The throttle linkage must allow for wide open throttle both by hand at the linkage itself and in the cab via the accelerator pedal. Observe that this is the case.

2. Examine your accelerator pedal arm at the pivot point. This is a notorious weak spot that is very susceptible to fatigue and breakage, which will inhibit the ability to apply proper throttle pressure.

3. Make sure you have forward engagement in all three gear selector positions...1, 2, and d. A shifter cable that is excessively worn or out of adjustment can throw your positions off, making you think you are in d when in fact you are in 2.

4. Readjust your kd linkage as follows. With the throttle closed, the clevis should be rotated so that it will slip easily onto the shaft with no need to physically push or pull on the rod to make it fit. At wide open throttle, the kd linkage should be fully actuated. If not, adjust the clevis ccw one or two full turns and re-connect. That should get your kd adjustment plenty close enough for gummint work.
 
You're right about what I did to the kd linkage. I have not had a chance to check the other things you mentioned but I will check them tomorrow if its not raining down here. Ill let you know what I figure out. Is the kd linkage arm supposed to have a bend in it??
 
It should have a minor bend up high in order to clear the firewall and a short 90* at the very bottom for retention in the trans linkage.
 
Okay, so my local transmission shop offers free diagnostics. He said that I need it rebuilt because it won't hold pressure... (like I said, I don't know a whole lot about transmissions) is this b.s.??? He wants $900 for a full rebuild if I take it out. I'm short on cash so I'm trying to find either a junkyard trans or one on craigslist. Are all tf 727's the same bell housing bolt pattern or are they different? (it May be a dumb question but I want to make sure before I go drop a couple hundred on a new trans...) tks
 
Ask him if he'll kiss you first before he ______ you. 900 clams for bench work only? Wow! The 727 is not a difficult transmission to rebuild. As I alluded to before when you mentioned the transmission on craigslist and I asked you what it was out of...the reason for that is, the IH version of the 727 has a bell bolt pattern that is specific to the IH engines. So no, a 727 sourced from a mopar or amc will not mate up to your engine. The guts are mostly the same, but not the shell.
 
Cool... Thanks for the info... I still haven't decided what exactly I am going to do yet... She's just gonna have to sit for a while I guess... Thanks again for the help.
 
So since you don't have to be in an extreme rush on this, how are you set up in the way of parking/work area and basic tools?
 
I don't have a shop but there is plenty of parking in front of my garage and I've accumulated a pretty good set of tools over the years... I was thinking about going with the transkit from B&M. I read the thread on here about this kit. Like I said, I don't know much about transmissions but I am pretty mechanically inclined. My plan is to try to do it myself before biting the bullet to have it rebuilt at a shop... Opinions??
 
That kit is a great value if you're wanting to not only overhaul, but improve the shift characteristics of the transmission. I don't know if you happened to stumble across the thread by Mike mayben in which he details the band adjustment procedure. It is also explained in the service manual if you happen to have one of those. The 2-3 or kick down band adjustment is accessible on the outside of the trans without needing to drop the pan. It does require a small socket with a specific number of points and an inch/pound torque wrench or a small foot/pound wrench that is capable of an accurate setting of 6 foot pounds (72 inch pounds). That's not much torque. There's a slim chance, but one worth exploring, that putting this adjustment back in spec if it is way out would cure your ill. Usually, a problem with this band will exhibit itself as a missing 2nd gear, which isn't your symptom. Aside from that, your next step is pretty much looking like unit removal for tear down, cleaning, inspection, and reassembly...or replacement with another unit. If you do decide to pursue another unit, there are some things to keep in mind.

1. If your Scout is a 4x4 model, then the donor unit must be from a 4x4 sii also. If your Scout is 4x2, then the donor unit must be from another 4x2 sii, or from a full size d-series pickup or Travelall in either 4x4 or 4x2. The reason is because of differences in the output shafts and tail housings. 4x4 scouts utilize a married transfer case that requires an adapter housing and different output shaft. The full size rigs require the normal output shaft and tail housing. In 4x4 configuration, a divorced transfer case is used, so there is no need for the adapter housing. The output shafts and tail housings can be swapped around, but it requires complete disassembly of the transmission.

2. Its often difficult to accurately assess the condition of a "used" transmission. You don't want to end up spending several hundred bucks on a donor that turns out to be in as bad if not worse shape internally than the one you've already got. If you can't be provided with trustworthy history on a used one, you're basically looking at nothing more than a builder core. Unless it can be had for next to nothing, I'd steer clear. You've already got one of those.
 
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