My '78 is getting a set of #7100 Bilsteins

[Scooter]

Nice. I ran bilsteins in my 74. No issues what so ever. Patrick, it sounds as if the rear shocks were not valved properly. I had to use ratcheting straps in order to compress all four of my shocks

when I did the SOA in my 74 Scout, I almost went with the same Ford style brackets up front. But I went with self made shock hoops up front instead.

My rear shocks used the oem upper shock mounting location with new weld on tabs onto the axle tube. And they were angle almost like how oem was setup. Once installed it was like driving a cadillac on steroids. My street is pot hole central and my Scout drove over them like it was nothing and just grinned and asked if that was all ya got?

 

[Patrick Morris]

Hi scooter. Nice mounts! If I could bend tubing I might have considered that. Great thing about your mounts is that there's absolutely no clearance issues around the shocks. It's very forgiving of placement. The Ford towers have to be mounted more carefully of course, to ensure there's no interference with the shocks throughout the entire suspension movement.

My buddy also used the Ford towers with his fox 2.0s and right away ran into something he didn't expect. The fox shocks have a much more square and beefy shoulder at the top (and they're an actual 2" od, unlike the 46mm bilsteins) and would not fit the mounts. He needed to grind a little metal off the edges of the shocks' shoulders to make them work.

Ratcheting straps would have been a good way to go. I managed to rig something up were I could compress the shocks with my weight while cinching down on the strap. Hardest part is getting it to within 1/4" or so of the ideal length to line up the holes. And the valve at the top makes things more complicated as well. I did notice, as I probably said above, that the rear shocks were much easier to "work with" for mounting. It makes me wonder if the gas pressure was the same as the fronts, and the damping as well. Unfortunately I don't yet have a gauge to measure that kind of pressure.

I should call Bilstein though. They are only about 15-20 miles from where I live. I wonder, if I pulled of my shocks and ran them over there, could they check them out and verify the pressure and damping without tearing them apart. Maybe they'd do that as part of the warranty.

One odd thing about all these shocks. The rears actually have stickers on them indicating the pn and say "255/70". The front ones, which I bought earlier, have no such sticker on them. They just came with that blue "Bilstein" ring around the top. It would be funny, but also frustrating, if my fronts are actually some stiffer type they sent me on a goof-up. Darn though, the only way to know is either to have Bilstein test them, or for me to tear them all down and examine the shims.

 

[Scooter]

What you described regarding the spacing for the upper mount is why I didn't use that style. I still have one pair of those towers sitting here on the shelf. I purchased them when I was collecting parts for one of my other scouts. But decided to make the hoops instead when I bit the bullet and purchased a tube bender.

If I was in your shoes, I was call up Bilstein and discus with them what you have described here. Sounds like the rear shocks you received were valved at a lower rate than the fronts. Since they are still under warranty, they should be able to work something out with ya.

 

[Patrick Morris]

Yeah I'll call them. I think there is a guy named joel who is the go-to guy for these off-road shocks. He answered a question or two of mine about the 5100s here on this board, a couple of years ago, and I've run across posts from him on other boards as well, always with the user name "random thoughts racing". I'll call and see if I can talk to him about this.

Fwiw, it dawned on me this morning that I can measure the gas pressure. I forgot that my mtn bike suspension pump has a 0-300 psi gauge on it and is designed to thread onto and measure shrader valves. So I measures the front and rear shocks:

fronts: both showed 280 psi.

Rears: one was 225, the other was closer to 240 psi.

Definitely a significant difference between front and rear. I don't know how this really affects the damping. Probably not enough to account for the difference I'm noticing, but I will ask Bilstein about it anyway.

I bled a little gas out of the fronts, just for good measure. Now they are both just under 250 psi. It probably ought to be a little lower still. I know the recommended pressure is 180-220.

 

[chico]

Hey scooter whats the length of that shock? Here is the pics of my rear end. I would like to build something to hold the resevor in the back.

 

[Patrick Morris]

Wow, nice pics. Very thorough.

I see you don't have the factory skid plate around your tank. If I'd gotten shocks with reservoirs I would consider mounting them one over the other on the forward surface of the skid plate. It'd be a nice solid, out of harms way location. Without that option though, I don't know. Maybe build a bracket that hangs down from the x-member?

 

[chico]

Thanks! I just kinda threw them on. I wanna run tubing of some kind up near the tub but thats in time. My Scout aint equiped to off road yet so I got time. The p.o changed the rear gear ratio and never the front so I need to fix that first. Ive been lookin for a frame cause the p.o againg fuged it all up and bent it up front. Rat turd welds on the spring mounts stuff like that. Then shock hoops for the front. Scooter is gonna help me with that tho...wink,wink.

 

[ihpartsjeff]

thanks! I just kinda threw them on. I wanna run tubing of some kind up near the tub but thats in time. My Scout aint equiped to off road yet so I got time. The p.o changed the rear gear ratio and never the front so I need to fix that first. Ive been lookin for a frame cause the p.o againg fuged it all up and bent it up front. Rat turd welds on the spring mounts stuff like that. Then shock hoops for the front. Scooter is gonna help me with that tho...wink,wink.

We have good frames available and ready to go if interested.

I personally have been running a set of 7100's for some time now on the rear of my white Scout and couldn't agree more about not only the quality of the shock but the quality of the ride as well. For those figuring out how to mount the reservoirs I have the left reservoir mounted to the right shock and the right reservoir mounted to the left shock. If you look close enough you can see how the hoses crossed each other. Sorry about the quality of the picture that I attached as it was the best that I could find.

On a side note I know it was mentioned earlier in this thread about whether we sell these as it is frowned upon to link products we carry to other sites. I'm somewhat ok with this on the 7100's since we don't stock them but as a Bilstein dealer we can order these in for you as well.

 

[chico]

Thanks for clearing that up for us Jeff. I know how you like to keep everything in house and honestly I didn't even think about you ordering them or price shopping these shocks as well. Kinda got excited!
On your 7100's are you running the same height? 8 in the rear, 10 up front? I know your Scout is sprung over and ours isn't. I'm just thinking when and if I do my spring over if another set of shocks is in my future.
Also ill give you a call on the frame situation.

 

[ihpartsjeff]

I'm using 10" travel in the rear and 14" in the front. From my research at the time these short body shocks were the longest travel shock that I could find with the shortest overall length.

 

[Patrick Morris]

Hi Jeff. I appreciate your understanding. I wouldn't mention outside pricing or purchasing of stuff in this forum of things you carry. It'd just be bad form.

Chico: I was thinking, even if you do go spring-over some day, as long as your travel doesn't increase (and it May not), you could keep these shocks. Just move up the lower mounting points by 5" or whatever ends up being the difference. Easy to do with a welder and some spare steel.

Btw, I've been doing some research of the 7100 shocks, mostly over on pirate. The guys in the desert racing subforum seem to be the most into this technology. Turns out that the 7100s aren't actually "digressive", despite Bilstein's hype about how great it is and how we all need it. 7100s are actually linear-valved, since that's what works best for medium and high speed off-road driving. In fact, among their higher end competition shocks, only the 9100s have an option to use digressive pistons (that's where digressive/linear is determined; by the type of piston.) digressive is well suited to purely rock-crawling, so they say.

I guess how the digressive pistons work is that they have some kind of upwardly curved surface, and that surface effectively pre-loads the low-speed damping shims/plates (the biggest ones next to the piston). So what Bilstein (and others) are doing is using a shim stack that'd make the damping otherwise kind of "soft", and then pre-loading the low-speed damping to make low-speed shaft travel artificially firm. There's nothing really magical about digressive damping. At least this is what I've gotten from my readings.

But the bottom line is, who cares what kind of piston/valving the 7100s have. They work bitchin.

I want to play with the rear damping though. I think it could use a little more rebound control. I'm putting together a nitrogen refilling setup. Have the tank, regulator, and no-air-loss chuck already. All I need now is a hose. I've read that the best type to use is hydraulic hose since it's well made and rated to absurdly high pressures. I just need to find one that's about 6' long with 1/8" npt females on both ends.

 

[FDChappie]

A refrigeration hose will work well for you. They are rated to 4k psi and are screw on 1/4" flare threads. With a couple of 1/4 flare to 1/8" npt brass fitting you're in business.

 

[chico]

This is how she looks today.

 

[chico]

You can see how the front passenger side frame is slightly pushed back and the p.o added rock gaurds into the body on both sides. (welded) haha

 

[Patrick Morris]

Chico: wow you have a lot more lift and bigger tires than my Scout does. I kind of thought so from your earlier pics. There is a lot more shaft showing on your rear shocks than mine. Make sure they won't "top out" too easily.

That Scout should make a really nice trail rig when it's along a little further. Looks cool now though.

Also...

a refrigeration hose will work well for you. They are rated to 4k psi and are screw on 1/4" flare threads. With a couple of 1/4 flare to 1/8" npt brass fitting you're in business.

Thanks. Is that the same as an "hvac" hose? I've read of people using those too.

And is it something you can find at home depot? (the adapters I can find lots in of places.)

 

[chico]

You think so? It's only a 3 inch lift on 33. I haven't fully cycled the rear yet. And they are connected to the stock spring plate. I guess we will see. Might be using the 10 in the rear. Lol

 

[Patrick Morris]

Gotta be more than that, I'd think. My friend's Scout has (I believe) 4" rancho springs using 5" l shackles with his 33's. And he doesn't have that much clearance at the wheel wells. Either that or it might just be and odd viewing angle. And/or the shadows making the gaps look bigger.

Just for fun, you might want to measure the distance from axle tube to the frame rails at the front and rear, and post the dimensions here.

edit: Chico, I looked at your earlier pics again. Your rear shocks might not be as extended as I first thought. I think it's partly just the perspective and angle of the lens in those pics, plus your stock spring plates have the shocks dropped a little more than do my spring plates by about 1.5".

Nice thing is, if you ever decide that the mounting points have the shocks too extended, it's easy to fabricate and weld some new ones a little higher. Having them higher up and more out of harm's way isn't bad. Better than if it was the other way around---lowering them would suck.

 

[chico]

So last night I measured from axle tube to frame and in the front I got 11.5 inches and the rear 10 inches.

 

[Patrick Morris]

Wow, that's a lot more lift that I have. I measure mine at 9.25" for the front and 7.75" for the rear.

I've got the Skyjacker 2" or 2.5" lift kit (whatever they call it). Mods to this are: front springs have iho's 5" long shackles; the rear springs have Skyjacker's 'helper leafs' to boost the rate and lift a little.

So I figure I netted at least 3" lift over my old stock springs. Maybe a tad more than that. Here is how the truck sits. Tires are 31" generals.

 

[chico]

Looks good! Maybe Jeff can give us a lil more in sight on stock height and his measurements now withe the shocks he is using. But I'm pretty sure ill be switching these out lol.