Mr. Mayben :D 1904(s) not working right.

[Michael Mayben]

wow, that's awesome, I'll have to look into that!

Off topic--where do you dispose of your old solvent? I have no clue where to put the stuff we've had for years that we can't use anymore.

Disposal of "stuff"??? That's a trade secret around here.

But...I gotta special recipe for noxious vegetation control that involves roundup, crossbow, well water, "stuff", and a 15 gallon electric spray rig mounted inna trash cart behind a garden tractor or Scout 80. And maintenance of about 3/4 acre of crushed rock driveways and parking lots with no goats on hand.

Git my drift???

 

[Rhodes]

My Dad has been doing that for 40 years. It's what they did when he was young on the farm, and it's what he tries to do today. I try and find cleaner ways of doing it, but sometimes I just don't have the answer, so we do it his way.


Hey it works.....it's just bad for our water table.


What local stores do you by "tyme" from......gosh that sounds awfully familiar.....hmmm

 

[Michael Mayben]

I buy tyme most of the tyme from a local independent parts retailer who is very unique in that they deal primarily in bankrupt/obsolete inventory, salvage merchandise from insurance deals, manufacturer's/warehouse closeouts, and really old inventory found all over the country. They have no computer other than a credit card machine. They finally put in a single modern cash register a few years back when the old unit went down for the final count. Their inventory and order system is a single yellow legal pad. When they run out of something, they buy more (maybe), nobody there can spell inventory control but they've been doing it like this for 60+ years through four generations of relatives!

Most all local industrial supply houses (such as bearing suppliers) sell the crc line of industrial chemicals.

My local bigtime warehouse distributor is eugene service parts, they have just completed acquiring fortuna distributing here and have a huge, super-dooper distribution system going now (wonderful folks to deal with), but they are wholesale to the trade only. They carry all crc products including tyme in the 5 gallon quantity, costs me about $100 currently for anew 5 gallon bucket and $20 a gallon in small quantity.

 

[Michael Mayben]

To test the economizer actuator system on these carbs (and many others), ya first figgr out what the vacuum signal path is. Since an economizer (or power valve) is operated by manifold vacuum, then ya search for a manifold vacuum path.

In the case of the 19xx main body, ya can see in this pic where that portion of the path is located when the throttle body is removed. So using a mityvac and the "needle" adapter that comes in the mityvac kits, ya probe down in the port and create a seal, then pump it up!

Once vacuum is applied to the actuator, it should raise but normally won't hold vacuum. As long as it raises cleanly and returns to the extended position when vacuum is released, then that portion of the system is working properly.

When the engine is running at idle or in any high manifold vacuum condition, the actuator is held up, which closes the economizer poppet. At that point, all liquid fuel is pulled for all circuits through the main jet (including the idle circuit).

When manifold vacuum decreases (such as when engine load increases due to a change in throttle plate angle), then the actuator drops, thus opening the economizer poppet which is about equal to increasing the main jet size by eight to ten steps. When engine load is reduced, then manifold vacuum increases, which turns the economizer poppet off.

So in essence, the economizer system on these carbs is a simple switch to increase or decrease liquid fuel availability to the main well circuits based upon engine load/demand.

This is economizer actuator test #1.

 

[Michael Mayben]

This pic shows the economizer actuator retracted (full manifold vacuum applied) which is the normal idle/cruise position. Since I was shooting the pic and operating the mityvac at the same time, I wasn't able to get a good shot of the actuator completely retracted, but ya git the drift?? Typically, it only takes a manifold vacuum signal of 10>12"hg to retract the actuator completely and hold it there.

However...when tuning any engine which uses these carbs, it's absolutely necessary to make certain that you have an idle manifold vacuum of at least 10"hg when beginning the tuning process, most decent engines will come in at a minimum of 15"hg even if in a poor state of tune. Otherwise, the economizer circuit will be turned on at idle/low load condition which will really screw up the mixture!!!

edit: I had posted a response to another individual in this thread that was not pertinent, my mistake!

 

[Michael Mayben]

Once the carb is completely assembled with the throttle body, we need to test the economizer actuator as it would be when the engine is actually running.

So using the mityvac with the same needle adapter, we simply stick it in that hole in the bottom of the mounting flange. That is the direct manifold vacuum feed to the economizer actuator.

But...when the carb is installed on the intake, that hole is sealed through the use of the flange gasket. The actual vacuum signal feed is inside the throttle bore and is a tiny hole right in line with the larger hole in the base. Because that hole is below the throttle plate, that is a true manifold vacuum port location.

So...ya take a finger and block the hole inside the throttle bore while pumping the mityvac, if the actuator piston raises, then ya gotta good seal and the carb is ready to button up.

The ihc-produced engines that these carbs were used on do not have a matching vacuum port drilled down into the manifold mounting boss. However, some engines from other manufacturers did have a vacuum port at that location in the manifold. That is the reason the flange gasket in the kits have the single hole (some have dual holes or actual feed slots). So when installing the flange gasket, we wanna turn it so that the hole is sealed.

The gaskets I made for those aluminum carb spacers for you have no vacuum feed holes at all.

If you do not tightly block that small hole inside the throttle bore when testing the actuator it won't work at all!

 

[Rhodes]

Are you sure you replied to the correct person?

I never mentioned going dual carbs on an offy. but I have thought about it, but I don't really care to spend the time or money.


So my gaskets that I use(with the holes) need to be turned where the hole in the gasket does not match the hole on the throttle body?

Thank you very much for the update, very interesting. I might have to buy on of these mityvacs.

 

[Michael Mayben]

are you sure you replied to the correct person?

I never mentioned going dual carbs on an offy. but I have thought about it, but I don't really care to spend the time or money.


So my gaskets that I use(with the holes) need to be turned where the hole in the gasket does not match the hole on the throttle body?

Thank you very much for the update, very interesting. I might have to buy on of these mityvacs.

I've got this whole deal screwed up now! I have four 19xx Ford carbs in process right now, one of 'em is a make-run until I can build a matched set of two 1904 carbs for an offy dual carb manifold.

So I've totally confused you with the two other Ford carb customers, sorry! This is twice now that I've confused you with two different other folks! And all of ya are dealing with similar/same fords!

However, all the info I posted about checking the economizer actuator is pertinent to any 19xx (or any other Holley carb for that matter).

If...your Ford intake manifold has a vacuum port that aligns with the hole I pointed out in the base of the mounting flange, then I'm assuming that is a manifold vacuum tap. But if you have no vacuum feed in your intake manifold flange, then orientation of the base gasket really doesn't matter, the economizer circuit will be controlled from that tiny hole inside the throttle bore that I showed to block with my finger when doing the test.

So you are obviously not "richard" in tracey, CA! He's the guy doing the dual carbs on the offy manifold. The pics I posted are richard's 1960 going on a '52 f-1 with the 215 motor.

I am unable to locate any carburetor that you shipped be for service, even though I do know we discussed it. I've just been to the post office again looking for it. Have you actually sent me a package yet??

 

[Rhodes]

^you tore it apart and showed me pics of it on the last two pages ......I thought. ??

I shipped it on the 26th of October, priority mail(2-3 day shipping) .

please don't tell me you or anyone else lost my carb .
from the picture you showed my of my float being dented in, I know for a fact that you have touched my carb, unless someone happened to have a carb with a float damaged identically to mine ?


p.s., I'm in bakersfield, I'll change my profile to say that now.

 

[Michael Mayben]

^you tore it apart and showed me pics of it on the last two pages ......I thought. ??

I shipped it on the 26th of October, priority mail(2-3 day shipping) .

please don't tell me you or anyone else lost my carb .
from the picture you showed my of my float being dented in, I know for a fact that you have touched my carb, unless someone happened to have a carb with a float damaged identically to mine ?


p.s., I'm in bakersfield, I'll change my profile to say that now.[/quote ]

now I got you straight ! I've been trying to find a phone number or email addy for you today ! you are nick c . on beale ave . in b-field right ??!! the "rhodes" thing has been really screwin' with my head !

your carb is complete . I'll email Jeff at ihon with the total, you can contact him and give him a credit card number and I'll ship .

sorry for all the confusion!

 

[Rhodes]

^^^ that's correct! Oh wow, how'd it do on the test run? Anything to note about the rebuild?

How exactly do I contact Jeff? I'd like to hopefully get this carb by the end of the week so the sooner the better.


Thank you very much Mike.:d

 

[Michael Mayben]

Here's a pic of the mixer running on the mule today. Idle quality is outstanding even on this junk engine. Accelerator pump shot has been optimized and the fuel level in the bowl was verified with a sightglass bowl, then final test run on the engine to check for any leakage.

Once it's installed and the engine is warmed you will have to finalize the curb idle speed and mixture for your engine.

Call ihon at 530.268.0864 tomorrow and settle up, they have the numbers. It will be dropped for shipping tomorrow, normal transit time to your area is two days by priority mail.

Thanks for having us do your work!

 

[Rhodes]

Thank you very much. I cannot wait until I can put that on my truck.

I'm going to have someone doing the payment for me as I do not "do" credit cards, is that ok? Moreover, what should they do when they call to make sure they're paying for the right tab?

 

[Michael Mayben]

thank you very much. I cannot wait until I can put that on my truck.

I'm going to have someone doing the payment for me as I do not "do" credit cards, is that ok? Moreover, what should they do when they call to make sure they're paying for the right tab?

Sure, a third party can make the payment! I've sent information to ihon so they are expecting a call, just give 'em your name!

Again, I'm sorry about the confusion here, this is the first time I've had so many of the same carbs for near identical vehicles all in process at the same time! I assure you your 1960 carburetor is the one you are getting back! It's the only one I've ever had in the shop!

This thread has generated tons of inquiries from Ford six-banger folks though regarding the 1904/1960 carbs. It's totally amazing the sheer volume of totally erroneous information I've seen on various Ford-related forums regarding these carburetors.

 

[Rhodes]

Ok cool. I just want to know since I'm the one actually footing the bill if you could send me an email to my email account on the actual amount to be paid so I can transfer the fees to the person paying.
I feel a little awkward asking someone to pay and "unknown-to-me" amount for something before I even give them something.

I'm not sure if you--as a moderator--are able to see my email that I used for my account on this site, but that's the one. I can publicly post it if need be(but won't until you ask).

Thank you so much, again Mike. :d

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about the erroneous info being passed around on other Ford forums(which I'm a part of) yes, that is exactly why I came here. There are some people that know these carbs well, but not nearly as thorough as you.

 

[Michael Mayben]

ok cool. I just want to know since I'm the one actually footing the bill if you could send me an email to my email account on the actual amount to be paid so I can transfer the fees to the person paying.
I feel a little awkward asking someone to pay and "unknown-to-me" amount for something before I even give them something.

I'm not sure if you--as a moderator--are able to see my email that I used for my account on this site, but that's the one. I can publicly post it if need be(but won't until you ask).

Thank you so much, again Mike. :d

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about the erroneous info being passed around on other Ford forums(which I'm a part of) yes, that is exactly why I came here. There are some people that know these carbs well, but not nearly as thorough as you.

No, I can't access the deep backend of the forum system here to make a match up of user name with email addy, that is a security feature only Jeff has access to. Just send an email to me at:

michael@IHPartsAmerica.com

And I'll return all the details to ya! That keeps this confidential. I have more jpegs of your carb I can also send you for future reference.

Ihon also accepts paypal if that is any easier for you.

 

[Rhodes]

Email sent. I might consider doing it through paypal too.

Thank you!

Edit: I sent the email using one account and it threw it back saying it couldn't send it to that address, so I used a different address and it hasn't kicked it back yet.

 

[Rhodes]

Alright it's payed up and everything. Do you still have the return address that was written on the box? Thst's where it goes back to.

Thank you very much Mike!!! Can't wait to get it!

 

[Michael Mayben]

alright it's payed up and everything. Do you still have the return address that was written on the box? Thst's where it goes back to.

Thank you very much Mike!!! Can't wait to get it!

Yes, I have the ship-to address. The box will leave for the p.o. In the next few minutes.

Thanks again for your bizz!

 

[Rhodes]

Hey Mike just recieved it right now and took a look...wow.

Is it all sealed up(fuel bowl) and ready to go? I'm gonna throw it on the truck in 5 minutes so I want to know if it needs a fuel bowl seal or not, doesn't look like it.

Thanks again so very much.