Mr. Mayben :D 1904(s) not working right.

rhodes said:
what kind of gasket material do you make/use for the fuel bowls? I have tried all kinds of stuff and the only one to work so far was a very nice cork material that I got from a guy who doesn't even do anything automotive related. He makes seals for large water pipe.
Just curious what you're going to use.

The manifold gasket I have are different than the ones in the kits I've bought. The kits have paper.

I tried to package everything up as best as I could using some styrofoam. We'll see what happens. Thanks again.
Click to expand...

For the basic 1904/1920 fuel bowl gaskets, I use the ones in kits or the ones I purchase in bulk. Those are made from interface solutions fiber/rubber paper impregnated with a black neoprene coating similar to the blue neoprene used in later style Holley-sourced gaskets. If I have to make 1904 bowl gaskets, then I use sheet rubber/cork composite material sourced locally from a distributor.

Interface solutions gasket materials (all types) are distributed locally through rol which has a relationship with corteco/freudenburg.
 
Yes, I picked up all outstanding shipments yesterday, it will be tested on an engine tomorrow, pics to come.
 
Mike, I hate to say it, but...............the carb in the above pic is not mine. :lol: mine had the vent tube coming strait from the fuel bowl. The list number for the carb I sent you would have been 1155.

Here's my replies to numbers
1)I did use it, but it's not been about a month or two. Moisture you say, no clue how that got in there.
2)cool

3) cool.

4) really? That's interesting. Wonder how that even happens.

5) now this one is hard to believe. I tightened those screws pretty well with fear of stripping something, and the accel pump element....I'm assuming thats that rubber "pump" thing....once again was replaced in a rebuild done just months ago.......how could it have no action after such a short time?

6) yeah, it was warped bad and I knew it, but I couldn't believe it has happened over time. I actually thought it was an optical illusion and that that's how they came from the factory new. Hahahaha and believe it or not that one sealed better than the one I have now.

7) I didn't use teflon tape on that carb rebuild. I'm sure of it.

Thanks for the info by the way.
 
rhodes said:
Mike, I hate to say it, but...............the carb in the above pic is not mine. :lol: mine had the vent tube coming strait from the fuel bowl. The list number for the carb I sent you would have been 1155.

Here's my replies to numbers
1)I did use it, but it's not been about a month or two. Moisture you say, no clue how that got in there.
2)cool

3) cool.

4) really? That's interesting. Wonder how that even happens.

5) now this one is hard to believe. I tightened those screws pretty well with fear of stripping something, and the accel pump element....I'm assuming thats that rubber "pump" thing....once again was replaced in a rebuild done just months ago.......how could it have no action after such a short time?

6) yeah, it was warped bad and I knew it, but I couldn't believe it has happened over time. I actually thought it was an optical illusion and that that's how they came from the factory new. Hahahaha and believe it or not that one sealed better than the one I have now.

7) I didn't use teflon tape on that carb rebuild. I'm sure of it.

Thanks for the info by the way.
Click to expand...

Well that was embarrassing!

I posted an email response to a different customer in your thread in regards to a different Ford carb! That was a cut and paste text response I'd done previously on my cell phone account while away from the primary computer!

Totally disregard what I posted, I've edited the thread to remove that post.

Information regarding your correct carb will be forthcoming later today.
 
Doublecheck and see if this one is your mixer!

Here's the story...your list 1155 is a Holley 1960, not a 1904. So the Holley reference is correct and this is obviously the correct carb for your application.

The 1960 is a variation of the 1904, as we discussed, a different bowl vent system, different accel pump shooter, the "booster" venturi attached to the choke plate, etc. Other than that it's near identical to a typical 1904 but has no "spark control valve" as do some other Ford-app 1904 mixers. The accelerator pump "shooter" on this mixer is non-removable.

And likewise, I saw no reason to pre-test this carb, no way it was gonna run anywhere near as it should.

The faults....

1) while the brass float is within the correct spec for mass (12.5g), it's severely distorted in the hinge area with a major dent. That changes the action of the float on the needle valve. It will be replaced with a correct used one.

2) the economizer valve actuator was dead. Did not operate at all when vacuum was applied. That means the eco valve has been open for many moons, same as going up (enrichening) the main jet about ten steps!

3) because the economizer was inop, the poppet valve was completely varnish stuck open. The main well is useable without need for remanufacturing.

4) mixer has a #70 main jet. I'm assuming that is correct for this engine? I don't have any Ford service manuals that go back that far in order to look up the spec, can you verify the main jet size from your literature? I would say that is about right though for your engine.

5) there is heavy varnish contamination inside the carb and main well, it must have set many moons with no fresh liquid inside, again, that is typical and why these things must be rebuilt periodically.

6) the idle mixture screw and bleed was nearly completely clogged with rust and fuel varnish.

7) one of the two sealing washers for the float needle seat was missing, that means the fuel level in the bowl could not be accurately. Controlled.

8) the main body is slightly warped, but not as bad as most, a minor repair will be done but won't obliterate the Ford p/n or the list number.

This pic shows the damaged float. This is what happens when folks use compressed air blown through the fuel inlet when trying to dislodge suspected contamination, air pressure collapses the float as the vent can't handle the high pressure/high volume air blast.
 

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This pic shows the main well contamination. The three main well plugs for the calibrated emulsion passages and the two plugs for the accelerator pump inlet and discharge valves have been removed for cleaning. Gross varnish contamination down inside the passages, ya just can't see in these pics as this camera won't do macro.
 

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Here ya see the idle mixture needle after removal. Rust down inside the passage along with varnish and same on the needle itself. While that May seem to be minor, these carbs are very tedious in that respect, they are not sophisticated at all, and if any passage, orifice, bleed, etc. Is even slightly restricted, their "mixability" goes ta hell!
 

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Here ya see the varnish residue and corrosion inside the fuel bowl/main body area. That item with the spring on the right is the economizer actuator, a vacuum-controlled piston.

When the engine is running, manifold vacuum raises and holds that actuator up, which in turn allows the economizer valve to be closed. When manifold vacuum drops (as when the throttle plate angle is increased under load demand), the actuator piston drops, which then opens the poppet and has an effect the same as increasing main jet flow about ten steps.

In this case, the actuator was not operational, therefore the economizer poppet was turned on all the time, resulting in a continual super-Rich condition. Even the idle mixture is pulled through the main well so it's affected also, not just the "cruise" function.
 

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1) I really didn't think that'd affect anything when I first saw it....but I also didn't know how to "fix" it.

2) what can cause this? Is it a bad rebuild job by me? Or is it something wrong with the main body? How can you fix that?

3) oh so because it was always open, there was nothing to get stuck in there like usual, so no need to unplug the plugs?

4) not only can I not tell you the original, but I don't know where I would look for that info. It was on this site that I first encountered text/info stating how those little screws/caps(jets) are actually different from others and you can interchange them, etc. I never knew any of that.

5) my Dad was having some unknown troubles with this carb at least 20 years ago, and so he put it in a plasic bag and let it sit for the last 20+ years. I rebuild it earlier this year for the first time in many moons and threw it on the truck.

6) I thought I cleaned that out with compressed air when it was apart, but taht's probably not good enough. What can be done better by me next time?

7) I have only recently realized that there was the other washer needed. When I rebuild my last 1960 that's on the truck right now, I made sure it was properly installed. I always wondered why there was that other copper washer!

8) oh so you will grind it down? How will that effect the actually sealing surface--isn't that below the lip?


Thank you so much for all of this info. I am sorry for all the questions, but I have to learn at least some of this so I can do a better job rebuilding these things in the future.

Thank you!!!
 
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Wow those posts are super informative. Astounding!

Absolutely astounding!!!


How and to what did you apply vacuum to, to test the econ valve?
 
These are the carb spacers I mentioned previously. Cast aluminum with machined cutaways for clearance on some application I'm not familiar with, 0.410" thick.

The problem with stacking gaskets under the carb base is...warpage and cracking. No way to properly compress the gaskets to create an effective seal against a vacuum leak. And, it would be very easy to actually break off a mounting ear on the throttle body when tightening.

I have two of these set aside for ya. And to go with 'em, you will find two shop-made gaskets using 1/16" interface solutions paper, one to go on either side of the spacer. These spacers have elongated mounting holes so they can be used with either 2-3/4" stud spacing or 3" stud spacing.
 

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Thank you very much. I never thought I'd be able to break a cast iron mounting ear, but then again I don't want to try!
 
This carb is not gonna need to be "soaked" it will get a mechanical cleaning (with strong solvent) only.

I'll show ya what I do with the bodies (yes I grind 'em...lightly) as we progress with the rebuild. Same for cleaning the main well which is similar to what a dentist would do inside yore piehole except I'm cleaner!

For testing vacuum passages, actuators, economizer components, power valves, etc., see this thread:

http://www.forums.IHPartsAmerica.com/tool-talk/1570-mityvac-thread.html

And this one:

http://www.forums.IHPartsAmerica.com/carb-tech/1738-Holley-power-valve-thread.html

I'll post a pic of how to test the economizer actuator twice as the carb goes back together. May even try to post a hd video from the droid x, might as well use this as an opportunity to learn how to do that!
 
I could never believe these carbs had so much that could be wrong with them that would cause running issues before you, Mike.

Awesome. Thank you for the replies. :)


so what solvent do you use? I use those cans of "dip" with the little metal baskets and let it soak for 24 hours(completely disassembled). Is that dip solvent not that potent?
 
rhodes said:
I could never believe these carbs had so much that could be wrong with them that would cause running issues before you, Mike.

Awesome. Thank you for the replies. :)


so what solvent do you use? I use those cans of "dip" with the little metal baskets and let it soak for 24 hours(completely disassembled). Is that dip solvent not that potent?
Click to expand...

The carb dip/solvent you have described is the stuff sold under the "gunk" brand and others. While it still smells awful forever, it has been so reduced in effectiveness due to epa crap I think the stuff is all but useless.

I use "tyme" cold parts cleaner which is manufactured/distributed by crc:

crc industries automotive product detail

Also available in a one gallon package, I pay $20 a gallon locally.

I dunk nearly everything in it, it does wonders on pistons/rods.

Don't leave anything in it more than 24 hours, especially if the solution has alotta use on it. As it becomes contaminated, I drain off one gallon and add a fresh gallon to the 5 gallon pail.

Once the parts are removed they go directly to a hot water rinse/nuetralization in the big laundry sink. Then many times the stuff goes into the dishwasher in the kitchen but do not use the "dry" cycle on the dishwasher!

Smells real nice compared to the gunk crap and does not stink up the whole neighborhood!
 
Wow, that's awesome, I'll have to look into that!

Off topic--where do you dispose of your old solvent? I have no clue where to put the stuff we've had for years that we can't use anymore.
 
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