intrnational 304 flexplate/flywheel

[mongo59]

Just purchased a 1969 International Scout 800 with a 304 and 3 speed automatic. From what I understand I have a flat spot on the flexplate which is causing a grinding noise at startup. I am very new to working on cars and am trying to understand.

A)what causes this?
B)what are the replacement options if there are any?
C)what kind of price am I looking at

anyone with one for sale please contact me also.

 

[Scout-It-Out]

Here's a link to the flex plate.
flex plate for v-8 - International Scout parts
As far as the cause, I would say old age and possibly lack of maintenance on the starting and charging systems. If you are able to change the flex plate your self, cost shouldn't be bad at all.

 

[mongo59]

Thanks for your help, now just have to find one in stock

 

[RobertC]

You need to know which auto trans you have.

The flex plate link in the store is for a torqueflite 727.

If the transmission in your 69 has not been swapped out, it is a borg warner (bw11?).

 

[Scoutboy74]

Robert is absolutely correct. Your unit is likely to be a bw auto, but swaps have been know to happen. To make positive id, look underneath the rig at the trans case. If it is a two-piece steel case (magnetic) and the rear portion can be separated from the bell housing, that's a bw. If it is one-piece cast aluminum (non-magnetic) that's a 727. If it is indeed a bw, you can pm me if you'd like as I have access to a bw fp that was behind a 196-i4. There May be balance issues going that route. Idk at the moment.

 

[mongo59]

It says t-38 on the line ticket, which I have been told it is a
bw-11. Calling around looking for part now.

 

[RobertC]

A few "thoughts":

there is another possible "solution" -- ihon lists a new ring gear for manual trans - and possibly auto trans (727). The question is if it also fits the borg warner auto flex plate. Call ihon - I think they should know.

You would need to take your flex plate to a machinist that could take the old ring gear off and weld the new ring gear on. Then, the flex plate would need to be balanced.

Which brings up the question balance on IH engines - as mentioned by trever.

The engines were externally balanced at the factory - "metal" was added to the flex plate / flywheel (and harmonic balancer?).

So, if you have the "repaired" flex plate neutral balanced - what does that do to the overall engine balance.

Ihon should also be able to answer that question.

Another possible issue, is that the flex plate for a 4 cylinder engine May be different from an 8 cylinder engine (have different part numbers)

another question that ihon should be able to answer.

 

[Scoutboy74]

it says t-38 on the line ticket, which I have been told it is a
bw-11. Calling around looking for part now.

Code t-38 13038 corresponds to a spicer 5spd manual, which was never available in any Scout vehicle. The applicable codes for the bw auto in ll vehicles are t-28 13028, t-39 13039, t-49 13049, and t-409 13409. Yours would most likely be the t-28, with the 2 misread as a 3. Either that or it is a t-39 with the 9 misread as an 8. Though both models are bw autos, the differences in ring/converter drive components are significant. It would behoove you to make a positive differentiation between the two before sourcing any parts. I have the mt-113 IH parts manual which covers s80/800 models and can provide you with IH part numbers for the ring and/or drive plate(s) once you make the proper determination.

 

[mongo59]

Trying to upload picture, this is what im looking for,

 

[mongo59]

According the line ticket it a t-39 trans, the mechanic states that there is a flat spot that is making a grinding noise at start up(pic attatched). Already replaced the starter and solenoids.

 

[RobertC]

Confused?

The noise only occurs when starting the engine; not while the engine is running?

The teeth on the ring gear do not show excessive wear, but you should check them.

Were any of the torque converter to flex plate bolts loose?

Any evidence of "rubbing" on the bell housing?

I know that the torqueflite 727 auto require a spacer between the starter and the bell housing for "correct alignment", but I have no idea if the borg warner auto trans also has a spacer...

Wag -- maybe it is not the correct starter / does not have the correct bendix drive???

 

[Scoutboy74]

Robert, no spacer shim required for bw autos. That is specific to the 727. If that plate does need to be replaced, there is only one part number with no separate call-outs between 4-6-8 cylinder apps. I do not know if there were any balance weights or strategic holes drilled during each final assembly.

 

[mongo59]

Im ohaving a very hard time finding the flexplate in the above picture, does anyone know of any other options or people that May have what I am looking for, a flexplate for a bw-11 transmission, 304 engine, 3 speed automatic, it is pictured above. Thanks for any help.

 

[RobertC]

Have you called IH Parts America?

It would be slim, but Jeff might have one.

Then, there are his brothers in so calif - Mike (www.IHOnly.com) and Isa (www.isaih.com). - who run IH businesses. I think their contact info is on this site.

After that there is phil coonrod in grant(?), co...

Pictures can be deceiving, but I do not see anything wrong with the one you have...

 

[Scoutboy74]

Since there is only one part number to cover all applications, I May be able to help out as I stated earlier. It could be a week or so before I have access to the one I mentioned for close inspection. I'm with Robert in wondering where the problem area is with yours. If its off the engine, could you post another angle that clearly depicts the damage?

 

[jeff campbell]

Are those nuts welded to the back side of the flex-plate? I've got 1 that doesn't have them? Can you post a pic of the other side?thx-- can you find a part # on it? Not sure if the 727's had a part # on the f.plate it self,but did have a # on the ring gear,(just using the 727 as a example)....Jeff

 

[Scoutboy74]

The IH part # for a t-39 flexplate is 377 945 c11.

 

[mongo59]

Thanks for your continued help, still looking for the part. Scoutparts.com has a ring gear that it says can be put on to the flex plate if you cut the old ring gear off and weld the new one on. Has anyone heard of somebody doing this. I will be putting some more photos of the flexplate up today. Its killing me, this part is the last piece to the puzzle and the Scout will be road worthy.

 

[jeff campbell]

Are those nuts welded on the backside?

 

[mongo59]

Here are some more pics, the nuts do not appear to be welded on the back. More like some washer looking things.