I"m having trouble!!!

G

grimlock97

Banned
Okay, I got the lift and everything on, blah blah, 1978 Scout II
4" SUA, Holley 2210 carb, I can start the Scout right up, without any issues, keep my foot on the gas for a few minutes, let it warm up and it will sit there and run forever while sitting still, I can drive it around a little bit without any real issues, but just around the yard, I took it for it's maden voyage after the lift and everything today and it dies half a mile from the house, sprayed some either in it, starts up, drives about 500 feet, it's like the carb is not holding gas pressure and it acts like it's out of fuel, this carb was rebuilt about a year ago and has only been used for about a month on this truck, it was never put on anything else, now does this sound like I need an electric fuel pump or should I just get a new carb or what is going on, any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
Carbs do not hold "gas pressure"; they just "hold" gas...

Check that the fuel pump is putting out the correct pressure (3 - 5 lbs).

You might want to check that the float level on the carb is correct.

You do not need an electric pump (ever -- unless you change from a carb to fuel injection); but maybe you need a new mechanical pump.

Replace the fuel filter... Or make sure the existing one, if new, is mounted correctly -- "arrow" in the correct direction.

Check fuel lines (all the way back to the tank) for crimped metal lines / rubber lines that are old and "sukking" air.

Maybe the tank is full of **** -- needs to be cleaned out and the "filter sock" replaced or removed.

Then, ... Maybe the carb, but doubt it...
 
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Thanks for the quick reply, I will get on top of that, the fuel filter is new and I have flushed the tank, so I can try the float and check for fuel pressure, it's just so weird that I can crank it up and let it idle and it idles fine, I have to keep my foot on the gas for a few minutes, but after that I can walk away and it will just sit there and run, thanks again and I'll let you know what I find out on the pressure and everything.
 
This sounds exactly like what happened with mine, turns out it was just the gas had gone bad after not being changed for a month and fouled up my carb just enough that it would start/idle just fine, but after it warmed up it wouldn't allow enough fuel to flow when under stress. Had to clean the carb and tank...again.
 
Thanks for the info, I'll be working on it all day today, it did sit at the paint shop for about a month, I guess I just need to check everything again,
 
Okay, I checked for fuel coming into the carb and there was hardly any, I took it loose below the filter and it is shooting good pressure, took the filter off, it was nasty, but a new one on and it's got good pressure at the carb, now when I try to start it, it shoots fuel out the top and maybe a fireball or two, without touching the pedal, so when it was getting less fuel it would run and idle, now that it's getting the correct amount in the carb it's backfiring out of the carb. What's next?
 
grimlock97 said:
The fuel filter is new and I have flushed the tank, so
Click to expand...

The above statement does not "match" this statement

"took the filter off, it was nasty, "

so, "something" was "missed"... In the maintenance performed...

The above casts some doubt on this statement:

"this carb was rebuilt about a year ago and has only been used for about a month on this truck"

given the backfire, you do not want to look down the venturi for excess gas leaking in....

Back to float level; warped gasket sufaces on the carb; ???

Also, seems like you will need a new fuel filter soon. Was all the **** blown out of the fuel lines?
 
I took the old fuel filter off and it was nasty so I put a new one on today just a couple hours ago, the carb was rebuilt for my 74 Scout, right after I had it rebuilt I got a good deal on a Holley 2300 so went with that and this carb has set in my attic for a year at least, like I said, it was running when the fuel filter was stopped up and now it's backfiring, I honestly do not know how to make sure the float is at the right level, but I can learn, the carb gasket does not look warped, but nothing has changed from running a couple days ago to backfiring today except a new fuel filter and the lines being blown out, is it possible to be getting too much fuel somehow? Should I be looking into another Holley 2300 or edelbrock equivalent? Thanks for the quick reply and I hope this isn't too confusing
 
I know you're not being intentionally confusing, but the explanation given thus far has been less than clear. After re-reading your posts several times, I think I have an understanding. Let's find out.
To start with you were dealing with a '74 Scout which had a 2210 on it that you had rebuilt. Right about that same time you purchased a used 2300 which you installed in place of the 2210. You then put the 2210 in storage for roughly a year. Then you bought a '78 Scout and installed the shelved 2210 from the '74 Scout on it. How's my driving so far?
Question...was the 2210 ever ran on the '74 Scout before you shelved it? If so, for how long and how did it run? If not, how do you know that the rebuild was done correctly? What provisions did you make if any to remove any fuel residue from the carb before storage? How was the carb stored? Completely open to the atmosphere or carefully sealed up?
What happened to the original carb from the '78?
 
scoutboy74 said:
then you bought a '78 Scout and installed the shelved 2210 from the '74 Scout on it. How's my driving so far?
Click to expand...

That is correct.

The 2210 was never ran on the 74 Scout, I put it in a Holley box with the plastic lid and plastic bag the 2300 came in and I shelved it not thinking I would ever use it, at one point I almost threw it away. The only inclination I have that the rebuild was done correctly is I took it to a professional shop in town that has been rebuilding carburetors for 40 years, other than that I have no proof they rebuilt it to specs or correctly. The original carb from the 78 is the 2245 and it is sitting in my shop on my table, I put a rebuild kit in it but I accidentaly broke the fast idle adjustment so it is shelved now with new gaskets and everything and I am kind of using it to just learn a little more about rebuilding them myself, two days ago I could start the Scout and it would idle without any problems, when I started driving it down the road I got about half a mile away in 3rd gear and it just cut out on me, I sprayed either in the carb and it started and I turned around to come home, it died again, another shot of either it will run for 500 ft. I finally got it back in the driveway and under the carport, yesterday I checked for crimped lines or anything blocking fuel flow, I pulled the fuel line off the carb and turned the vehicle over as if to start it and nothing came out of the fuel line, I then pulled the fuel line off just before the filter and fuel was shooting out when I tried to turn the vehicle over so I came to the conclusion that my fuel filter was clogged up, I took it off and drained it and it was dirty and nasty looking, so I put a new fuel filter on, the fuel filter I took off was also new before I took the Scout to the paint shop, but the filter was only 2 dollars so I bought a new one, I put the new filter on and pulled the fuel line at the carburetor again and when I started to turn the vehicle over the fuel was shooting out of the fuel line like I think it should have been, there was very strong shots of fuel coming out, so I re-connected the fuel line to the carburetor hoping that it would fire right up and no such luck, I had to charge the battery at this point so I quick charged the battery and I pressed on the throttle at the carb a few times to check that fuel was getting in and the carb was squirting fuel down the venturi tubes so I tried to crank it and it acted like for a second it wanted to start but then it will just spin the motor, so in my infinite wisdom I sprayed some either down the carb since it had worked in the past, the first shot the truck did nothing, sucked the either in and still didn't even try to start, the second time it sucked in the either and backfired a little and sputtered but still would not start, then the backfire out of the carb and a fireball, then a couple of sputters and two shots of fire, all of this was off of either and not regular fuel, when it tries to start with just plain gas it doesn't even really try to start, it just turns and turns until the battery is dead, now I did notice even after flushing the lines and the tank once more the gas looked a little dirty, is it possible that my gas tank is beyond repair and I need a new one, or do I just need to keep flushing the tank until I get crystal clear gas, could that be the issue if the gas is a little dirty? Thanks for bearing with me.
 
Thanks for filling in the gaps. That does clarify things a bunch. If a brand new fuel filter turned nasty looking and got plugged up that quickly, it's very likely some of the finer particulate matter was able to pass through the cheap filter element and enter the carb itself. First thing is, you've got to purge the contaminated fuel. And it is contaminated if it has that much color in it. No sense trying to run the vehicle on that supply any further. I don't know what method was employed to clean the tank before, but obviously it missed the Mark. If you have any radiator shops nearby, I suggest taking it to one of them to have it boiled out. Now, you could try connecting the fuel supply line to a known fresh container of fuel to see if things improve, but I suspect the carb needs to be pulled, partially disassembled and at least have some carb cleaner sprayed through it chased by copious amounts of compressed air. After that is done, you should be running at least two fuel filters. One just to the tank side of the pump, one between the pump and the carb, and I even have a third installed closer to the tank in a tucked away, yet accessible location. Overkill? Maybe...but they're cheap.
 
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Thanks for the info, I am going to pull the carb this afternoon and give it a good inspection inside and clean it out, and I will try the fresh fuel from a container to see if that helps, it will be a couple days before I can flush the tank and drop it b/c it takes forever to remove that skid plate and drop the fuel tank, thanks again and I'll try to post something when I find out more.
 
Okay, I bypassed the fuel tank, I put a couple gallons of fresh gas in a can and ran a hose from the tank side of the pump to the gas can, it back fired once, then cranked right up and idled for about 20 minutes, I revved it up a little and it kept running with no problems, I used a little bit smaller hose b/c that is all I had but that shouldn't change anything right? If I flush the tank thoroughly hopefully this seems resolved but I have to see, one question though, my carb with the breather off makes a very loud hissing noise from inside, it deadens when I put the air cleaner on, is this normal for these carbs?
 
One more thing, does this look like normal operating range, this is after the 20 minute idle time
img00247.jpg
 
Hose id for the temp fuel supply is of no concern provided the fitting at the pump is tight and leak free. The louder hissing at the carb with the filter canister off is to be expected. The gauge readings are within spec for a 20 minute idle. With the temp gauge, the horizontal bar represents normal operating range of approximately 170 on the left to 210 on the right. So dead center would be roughly 190 degrees. I'll bet you've got a 180 degree stat, right? On the oil pressure gauge, the center Mark is roughly 50 psi. So the quarter Mark at warm idle is pretty good. Even if the gauge drops below the left tick after the engine is fully warmed up, this is not cause for concern, as long as it moves back to the right with increased engine speed. I have a mechanical gauge hooked up also on mine and during a hot idle, it will be registering just under 10 psi while the stock gauge isn't even registering at all. A quick blip of the throttle and both gauges respond rather quickly. The rule of thumb for adequate oil pressure on these engines is 10psi per thousand rpm's, which is quite a bit lower than the other makes.
 
Thanks for the info, I guess my next step is to pull the tank and either replace it or take it to the radiator shop, I tried it again just for kicks, I hooked the fuel tank back up and it sputtered and wouldn't run long and needed either to start, then I pulled the hose and hooked up the gas can again and it fired up and ran like a champ. I'm glad the gauges are reading correctly, I guess I will need to get a new sending unit since I'm dropping the tank and the gauge doesn't seem to register even with 10 gallons of fuel in there. All the other gauges and lights work though, even the bright light indicator and 4 wheel drive light!
 
Got the flushed fuel tank in and put a new sending unit and new fuel line complete with two in line filters, two quick questions,
1. Even with the new sending unit my fuel gauge is not registering and all other gauges work fine, and 2. It fired right up but was bellowing black smoke (too much fuel) this morning there was fuel sitting on top of the intake manifold like it was running out the carb, there are no leaks in the line or anything, any ideas?
 
Answering in reverse order, cuz that's how I roll:

2. Float level is either stuck or set too high. This is likely contributing to the over-Rich combustion condition, but May not be the only cause.

1. Either the fuel gauge is shot, the connections on the back of the gauge are compromised, the circuit is being interrupted somewhere between the gauge and the sender, or the sender is no good.
 
Okay, I went out today and there was fuel all over the ground and the truck has been sitting, I went ahead and bought me a new Holley 2300 and put it on there and when I took the fuel line off , without even trying to start the Scout in a few days the fuel was steadily dripping out from the fuel filter, I'm guessing the diaphram in the fuel pump is bad? Just a guess, I ordered a new one today it will be here Tuesday, in the mean time I proceeded to put the new carb on and got everything hooked up, I left the fuel line off b/c of the steady drip and didn't want to flood it, there was standing fuel down in the manifold, so me being smart (he he) I put the carb on and tried to crank it so it would push out all the old fuel, and burn it off, I wet my pants almost, the loudest backfire I have ever heard popped off and even my neighbors came running out and thought I shot somebody!! I'm guessing this was caused by all the fuel still in the manifold, would this be a good guess? Thanks for all the help, I just want to drive this thing and I haven't got to drive it further than my yard yet and I've been building it since 1 January 10!
 
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