I am only getting start not start run

You should check to see if you have spark. First from the coil to the distributor. Pop the high tension lead which is the big wire running from the coil to the center of the dizz. Ground the brass contact but leave an air gap of @ 3/8 of an inch. A strong spark will jump the gap and give you a light show. If that checks good, reconnect and then remove one plug boot from the plug of your choice. Set up the same air gap with it. Crank and check for spark to jump that gap. If you've got good fire, then there would be no need to go back to your points dizz. It helps to do this around dusk for easier visibility of the spark. If you don't have fire, then reverting back to points would be your next option. The igntion specific wiring still needs to be addressed regardless. If you go back to points, keep in mind that you will also need to supply a resistive feed to the coil, which you don't presently have in place. This can be achieved with an inexpensive porcelain ballast resistor available from most any parts store which you would locate to your firewall and would interrupt your ig switch wire to the coil. The trick is, you need to supply the correct total amount of primary resistance, which is between 3.0 and 3.4 ohms. Your coil will have a small amount of measurable resistance, likely to be around 1.5 ohm. That's just an example. I would insist that you ohm it out with your dvom before making a resistor purchase if it should come to that. You want all wire leads disconnected from the coil, ambient temperature close to 70 degrees and your dvom set to the smallest increment ohm reading. Whatever figure you see, you'd subtract it from the 3.2 total and the remainder is the ohm value of resistor you would need to purchase give or take a couple decimal points.
 
I had explained checking that sparker from the coil wire a few days ago on the phone. :out:

ron
do your self a favor and stop beating it around the bush and gut out that spaghetti you call wiring. It's like beating a dead horse back to life. Otherwise you're gonna continue chasing your tail every which way but forward. My opinion is going back to points is a step backwards. First thing I do in all my own scouts is chuck those damn points as far away as they can be and install a pertronix upgrade inside the current dizzy, what ever model it is. I know very well that money is tight on your end. And for the price you had been quoted for a new dizzy, you could actually purchase a new 14 circuit wire harnesshere And a pertronix ignighter upgrade to your current prestolite dizzy here With money to spare. I am currently doing a re-wire in my own 73 beast because I don't want the headache that you are currently dealing with. Not worth the time and effort to trace one wire at a time from previous owner virus. And that house/industrial wiring you spliced into your current automotive wiring aint cutten it. It's not made to handle all the heat, grease and everything else that goes into the engine compartment. Wiring up these vehicles aint like wiring up a house or warehouse building. Two completely different applications.

Sorry for being so blunt. Guesen that your headache and frustration is hurten my feable brain. You're a good guy ron. And I am willing to help ya out here. But lets not get into the hack jobs of trying to fix something that will ultimately bite ya in the a$$ later on. Worse yet, a bigger fire that ingulfs your whole Scout. I sure would hate to see that happen if you have your daughters with ya. Vehicles can be replaced, but family and friends can't be
 
Ahh household wire in a vehicle. I have a story about that. About seven years ago I purchased a '73 Scout in driving condition just because it was cheap and I could afford it at the time. One of the interesting po modifications was a set of four humungous chinee offroad lights mounted through the front of the travel top. Brilliant location, but that's not the best part. The po who installed them ran four individual strand of 12-2 romex in full insulation to four separate toggle switches mounted in the dash. Power to the switches was supplied via an awg wire connected directly to the + battery post with no circuit protection...but hey, at least that wire was automotive grade! I have no idea how that sumbitch managed to get those fat as wires run the way he did. It took me an entire day to get that hideous shit ripped out! Ron, in your profession, I'm confident that you would beat a fool over the head with a 2x4 if you discovered that he had wired his house or building with even one strand of automotive wire. Well, it goes both ways. We're not trying to be mean here. Its tough luvin' come to jesus time. This is for your own good. We really do want to help you, but you gotta help us help you, or we May as well unsubscribe from this thread and move on. Your call.
 
ok I give up you guys win. The voltage to the coil was only 6.15 volts until I unhooked it. I have 12v at the coil, as soon as I land the wires goes down to 6. Put on one of my different coils and she fired right up did the timing by ear and sounded great. Until I tried to drive it. As soon as I put it under load sputtering coughing not running.

I understand my truck is messed up. I understand about po virus etc. The feeling I am getting here is one of frustration, which believe me I understand.

@ scooter I believe you about the wiring, point is I was talking about putting my old holly points equip dist. In. If I was able to afford a new dist. And had that kind of $ right now. I would follow your recomendation about rewiring, but I'm not, and I don't.

House wiring, automotive wiring, as far as I know the physical properties of copper does not change with a lable. You can coat copper with tin to make it heat resistant, you can strand it, or fine strand it to make it flexable. And you can insulate it with heat, sun, gas and oil resistant, etc.

If the insulation is in tact, the wire is the proper gauge for the amps, and has no resistance from getting hot, then I gaurantee that the elctricity cannot tell the difference. I am not arguing for or against, that is just fact.

What I mean by you win is, I guess I am done working on Scout until I can afford to gut out everything not up to your standards or you'll unsuscribe from this pointless thread. It's my turn to not sugar coat this, but this is what I'm reading.

Since the motor swap the truck has run, a little Rich, but well. I didn't change anything. She started running badly I found one of my carb adj screws had walked. I readjusted those, checked timing after, rest it down about 2 degrees to 4 adv. Ran well for 5 miles like shit since. Since I did not rewire anything I wasn't really thinking wire is the problem. Just wanted to fix it, now I'd just love to get it to run enough to take it somewhere, to someone who this is not over their head like mine.

I lost the motor, reason for the swap, right in between loosing both of my parents. I have a lot of things to get through and need a vehicle. I've just scheduled my moms services. In a few weeks I will have access to $ from my Mom's estate and I will give this thing to kimball as long as he'd like. Right now is just the worst time to be without wheels, but it's parked, on a public street, and I'm done. When I can afford to restore it I will and then take another stab at this issue.
 
Last edited:
Ps the coil gets it's voltage from the switch. The 2 wires on the lower post of the starter, the one coming from the firewall is 12v key switched so is the coil wire going up. When I tried coil direct to ign, and direct to battery would not start. Put it back on that wire starter post it starts. Checked for that restive voltage in all stages, run start etc.on the lower post and in no state is their voltage there without that switched hot coming from the fire wall.

The switched hot and the wire on up to the coil were both International green factory wires, don't know if a factory worker put them there, but were still taped into harness.
The yellow wire I replaced the one I melted with, is stranded, tinned (heat resistant) and has cloth over plastic insulation made for high heat. There is no resistance in the wire.
 
Last edited:
ronbgone said:
ok I give up you guys win. The voltage to the coil was only 6.15 volts until I unhooked it. I have 12v at the coil, as soon as I land the wires goes down to 6. Put on one of my different coils and she fired right up did the timing by ear and sounded great. Until I tried to drive it. As soon as I put it under load sputtering coughing not running.

I understand my truck is messed up. I understand about po virus etc. The feeling I am getting here is one of frustration, which believe me I understand.

@ scooter I believe you about the wiring, point is I was talking about putting my old holly points equip dist. In. If I was able to afford a new dist. And had that kind of $ right now. I would follow your recomendation about rewiring, but I'm not, and I don't.

House wiring, automotive wiring, as far as I know the physical properties of copper does not change with a lable. You can coat copper with tin to make it heat resistant, you can strand it, or fine strand it to make it flexable. And you can insulate it with heat, sun, gas and oil resistant, etc.

If the insulation is in tact, the wire is the proper gauge for the amps, and has no resistance from getting hot, then I gaurantee that the elctricity cannot tell the difference. I am not arguing for or against, that is just fact.

What I mean by you win is, I guess I am done working on Scout until I can afford to gut out everything not up to your standards or you'll unsuscribe from this pointless thread. It's my turn to not sugar coat this, but this is what I'm reading.

Since the motor swap the truck has run, a little Rich, but well. I didn't change anything. She started running badly I found one of my carb adj screws had walked. I readjusted those, checked timing after, rest it down about 2 degrees to 4 adv. Ran well for 5 miles like shit since. Since I did not rewire anything I wasn't really thinking wire is the problem. Just wanted to fix it, now I'd just love to get it to run enough to take it somewhere, to someone who this is not over their head like mine.

I lost the motor, reason for the swap, right in between loosing both of my parents. I have a lot of things to get through and need a vehicle. I've just scheduled my moms services. In a few weeks I will have access to $ from my Mom's estate and I will give this thing to kimball as long as he'd like. Right now is just the worst time to be without wheels, but it's parked, on a public street, and I'm done. When I can afford to restore it I will and then take another stab at this issue.
Click to expand...

That's heavy. I'm very sorry for your loss. We ganged up on you pretty hard. In my perception, it seemed there was a puzzling reluctance on your part to address what appears to to be a pretty clear wiring issue. I wasn't trying to insinuate that this thread is worthless, just that it felt like we were at the old "lead the horse to water, can't make him drink stage." now, after this latest disclosure, I have a much better understanding and appreciation of your mindset. I now realize this isn't about you being stubborn. You have a crap-ton of life to deal with right now, and you were counting on this rig to be a part of that life asap. Adding to the frustration is that you were driving it recently, which I'm still of the opinion was as much an accident as anything else. I've experienced, and I'm sure you have too, instances where results were sometimes achieved through non-conventional methods. I've seen such results be premature because something wasn't done right, or a short cut was taken that proved to be more costly in the long run than applying the correct method would have been. And I'm not talking about more than one acceptable way to skin a cat. That's another thing entirely. We don't know at this point what is ultimately to blame for the rig not running or running very poorly. But I still maintain that the wiring is a contributing factor. Perhaps fixing that issue will not be the magic bullet that gets it going again. If not, at least that one area would be verified as good and the focus could then be moved to the next link in the chain. I wish I lived closer, as I'd be more than happy to lend a hand to help you get this going again. From this distance, I can only address what is staring me in the face, which is the wiring. My approach if I were able to be there, would not involve wholesale gutting of the existing circuitry. I would spend some time trying to sort through what is correct and acceptable for safety and functionality and then selectively re-route or remove wires that are going where they shouldn't, or are just plain unnecessary. We all agree that this rig could benefit from a re-wire, just as many of this vintage could. That sort of thing can wait until time, funds, and circumstances allow. That's been my clear position from the outset.

This isn't a game or a competition. It isn't about ego stroking or any of that bs. Winning only comes in the form of resolving issues and improving or restoring functionality in the most widely accepted manner. And often times applying bandaid and bumble gum as a make do, when done well enough, is a perfectly acceptable temporary solution. Don't lose hope. Don't give up. Lets all cool our jets on this deal and forget about major re-wire projects and distributor swaps for the time being. Lets narrow our focus towards resolving what issue we can with what we have on hand or that can be sourced cheaply.
 
ronbgone said:
ps the coil gets it's voltage from the switch. The 2 wires on the lower post of the starter, the one coming from the firewall is 12v key switched so is the coil wire going up. When I tried coil direct to ign, and direct to battery would not start. Put it back on that wire starter post it starts. Checked for that restive voltage in all stages, run start etc.on the lower post and in no state is their voltage there without that switched hot coming from the fire wall.

The switched hot and the wire on up to the coil were both International green factory wires, don't know if a factory worker put them there, but were still taped into harness.
The yellow wire I replaced the one I melted with, is stranded, tinned (heat resistant) and has cloth over plastic insulation made for high heat. There is no resistance in the wire.
Click to expand...

Okay, the bottom 'r' terminal on the solenoid is energized during starter crank without needing to have any wires connected to it. You can test this out yourself if you don't believe me. *that is, if all other wires to the other solenoid terminals are correct. The purpose of that is simple. With breaker points, the coil needs full voltage only during starter cranking to aid in getting the engine running. Once the engine starts up and the key is released to on, that post is no longer energized, as the resistive feed from the ig switch then takes over. So yes, with your previous engine and dizz combo, you needed one wire and one wire only running from that 'r' terminal up to the coil +, which would have been the factory green wire that you fried. With the presto, that resistor bypass function is unnecessary. Now, if it becomes necessary for you to revert back to points, you will need that replacement yeller wire or another just like it, running from 'r' to coil +, so you can set that one aside in your possibles if you like. You do not and should never have a hot wire running from the ig switch connected to that 'r' terminal. *right now, you should have no as in zero wires coming to or going from the 'r' terminal, in case I haven't made that clear enough thus far.
You can also stop checking for resistive figures at the coil while the engine is running or trying to run. Again, you're not providing a resistive feed. Resistance is measured in ohms not volts anyway. I'm not sure where you came by the 7 volts figure you've mentioned before, but that is totally irrelevant. As a current measurement in volts, you want to be seeing 12.x at the coil + during starter crank and also whenever the key is on. That's it. If you have that, great. If not, we need to figure out why there is voltage drop and where it is occurring.
 
Last edited:
Ok first of all thank you for stepping back for a moment. In addition to all that we've covered has been a feeling that this is a distributor related issue not wiring. I have never had a prestolite before, but I finally went there took off the cap rotor and dust shield and physicaly put hands on everything inside. There is a j shapped plastic piece in there where I would think the points would be it appears to have an adjustment as the screw holding it down goes into a slotted hole. I noted the clean round circle opposite the end containing the screw. I moved it and it flopped around the screw was one thread from being ground dizzi. I moved it back to it's apparent place and tightened the screw she leapt to life! Ear timed it and she ran fine. As I always wish to remain teachable I took the lower post of the starter out of the loop and ran it straight to the coil. She is running like a rapped ape!

I thank you both immensely, I appreciate the time you put in here for me, and the patience it took to get it accross. Believe me on this. I can now get my business handled and Scout will have her day trust me, I'll have enough resources soon to give kimball a blank check and we will do everything right.

Thank you again
 
Ps I totally agree with the whole selma hyack thing, having her in my Scout, I would care if it ran or not.
 
ronbgone said:
ok first of all thank you for stepping back for a moment. In addition to all that we've covered has been a feeling that this is a distributor related issue not wiring. I have never had a prestolite before, but I finally went there took off the cap rotor and dust shield and physicaly put hands on everything inside. There is a j shapped plastic piece in there where I would think the points would be it appears to have an adjustment as the screw holding it down goes into a slotted hole. I noted the clean round circle opposite the end containing the screw. I moved it and it flopped around the screw was one thread from being ground dizzi. I moved it back to it's apparent place and tightened the screw she leapt to life! Ear timed it and she ran fine. As I always wish to remain teachable I took the lower post of the starter out of the loop and ran it straight to the coil. She is running like a rapped ape!

I thank you both immensely, I appreciate the time you put in here for me, and the patience it took to get it accross. Believe me on this. I can now get my business handled and Scout will have her day trust me, I'll have enough resources soon to give kimball a blank check and we will do everything right.

Thank you again
Click to expand...

That's awesome dude! Reports like this are what feeds my frankenstein and keeps me spewing what little advice I do have. You've snatched victory from the jaws of defeat, my friend. Very nicely done!:thumbsup:

oh yeah, I'm pretty sure if I was "driving" miss salma, the vehicle would need to be parked...if you know what I'm saying! Nyuck, nyuck, nyuck:wink5:
 
Ahhhh music to my ears. Glad to hear that you fingered it out. All part of the learning process.

I had to step away for the day to re-coop and unwind my feable brain.
Ron:
I consider you a friend. And a trust worthy friend is hard to come by. With that being said, sorry for coming down a little harsh in my last post. It is frustrating when things go haywire in life. I'm aware of what's going on in your life at the moment, and probably a little more so since you had spent some time with me here in my shop space while we did your motor swap. Sorry. It's hard enough losing one family member, let alone two in such a short period of time. Then add insult upon injury, your one and only transportation starts giving you more of a headache. I can relate to a lot of what you are going through. I been there done that to a certain degree. Beeing homeless living in a 68 chebby van for awhile wasn't much fun. Especially having a hyperactive husky/wolf mix dog sleeping next to me. That lasted until I decided to do an endo rollover while going down I-5 at speed in bakersfield. Long story, but my dog and I actually walked away, without a scratch, from that one too. And then owned a house that went sour after 10 years. Just to name a couple things I been through.

After you having spent time here in my shop space, you should be aware of how much of a fan I am with hack jobs and shotty work at best on any vehicle. You have personally seen some of the work I have done. Not just with your baby Scout, but with two of my own personal scouts. I just don't like seeing people do something that they will regret later on down the road that May ultimately bite them in the arse. During the motor swap, you have experienced how I am when it comes to doing that much work. Try to do it right the first time with out any short cuts. Having to do the same thing twice in a short period of time aint much fun for any one. Even more frustrating when things don't go right. When I work on some one else's vehicle, it is as if I am working on my own vehicle.

I know things are hectic in your life at the moment. Any time you need a break and wanna hang out for a bbq, and maybe vent if need be, just let me know.
Your friend
scooter
aka - kimball
 
Last edited:
Ah scooter that's music to me ears. I took you up on an offer to use your shop space when I was jammed up. In the process I too made a friend. You're right it is rare to find a friend who put's others first and you do. Even more rare to find one who can talk me down when shit's going south. The rarest, is one I could trust with my baby Scout. You've been all of those for me and I will see you soon. Scoutboy I consider a friend I haven't met yet. You give me good advice, tough love, and are understanding. Scout ran like a champ this weekend up to sacramento and back. She came around just in time to save my relationship, another loss I don't need now. Just have to dial in the carb and timing to boost the mpg from 12 to 18 I hope.
 
Just wanted to say that Scout is running much better. Glad to see it actually running fairly well. And that you were able to get it running. And we'll get it better. In due time.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top